Bite Me The Show About Edibles
Helping cooks make great cannabis edibles at home.
Create your own tasty, healthy cannabis edibles and take control of your high life! Bite Me is a weekly show that helps home cooks make fun, safe and effective cannabis edibles. Listen as host Margaret walks you through an marijuana infused recipe that she has tested in her home kitchen or interviews with expert guests. New episodes every Thursday.
Bite Me The Show About Edibles
Finding Sense & Purpose with Karen Young
Karen from Sense & Purpose offers a refreshing take on the burgeoning cannabis beverage industry, sharing her remarkable transition from the corporate world of Quaker Oats and Nestle Waters to pioneering cannabis-infused drinks. Promising insights into her journey, Karen discusses how her personal experiences and professional shifts contributed to the creation of a brand that fuses Canada's pure water with cannabis. Her emphasis on high-quality ingredients and the innovative approach to product development highlights the potential of cannabis beverages as a healthier alternative to alcohol, particularly in light of the "Cali sober" movement.
Listeners will gain an understanding of the complexities within the cannabis market, as Karen navigates the challenges of launching a brand in a heavily regulated environment. Her story encapsulates the hurdles of advertising restrictions, the necessity of community-driven support, and the strategic balance of THC and CBD to achieve desired effects in products like "refocus" and "relax." By sharing both personal anecdotes and industry insights, Karen showcases the transformative power of cannabis beverages and their growing acceptance across different demographics.
We also explore the exciting possibilities of collaboration and coopetition in the cannabis industry. Karen highlights the opportunities for innovation and inclusivity, focusing on developing wellness products for diverse communities, including the 2SLGBTQ+ and Gen Z groups. Her vision for the future of cannabis beverages underscores the importance of research and open dialogue in challenging stigmas and fostering a broader understanding of cannabis's benefits. This episode celebrates Karen's inspiring journey and her commitment to shaping a dynamic future for cannabis beverages.
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Hello friends, it's episode 284. And today we are sitting down to talk to Karen of sense and purpose. Stay tuned, welcome to Bite Me, the show about edibles, where I help you take control of your high life. I'm your host and certified ganja Margaret, and I love helping cooks make safe and effective edibles at home. I'm so glad you're here and welcome back friends. We have a fun episode today. I had a wonderful conversation with Karen of Sense and Purpose, and Sense and Purpose is a beverage that is available in Ontario at the very least. I'm not sure where else in Canada. I can link to the website so you can see for yourselves and find out more about the brand. After this episode and before we get into it, I just want to say thank you to all the listeners out there who are listening, who are contributing in the Bite Me Cannabis Club, who are sending emails and fan mails and all the things that you do to support the show, sharing it with other friends who are into cannabis edibles and all the rest of it. It really does make a difference.
Speaker 1:Word of mouth is probably one of the best ways to spread the word about a podcast, especially in the cannabis space when it is so difficult to advertise. I can't advertise on almost any of the traditional platforms, unfortunately. As we all know, meta and instagram currently are not too friendly towards cannabis. Neither are many of the other social media platforms, and a lot of that stuff is in flux anyway. Advertising on traditional podcast advertising platforms often don't allow cannabis content either, even though I feel like I'm helping to educate folks about cannabis and reduce stigma in a legal jurisdiction. This this is the reality that I face. So any of that word of mouth really does go a long way to help people discover the show, and the more the merrier.
Speaker 1:Before we get into today's topic, I just want to mention that I have been working on my mental wealth this year and I hope that you are finding ways to improve your sleep, your diet, your exercise, your stress management and using exogenous compounds to help you maximize each of these areas. I know I am. I've been working lately on getting to bed earlier because I do love to doom scroll and I know that's not necessarily healthy for me, especially when they talk about the light that comes from your phone as being very disruptive to your circadian rhythm. So even though I get pretty decent sleep, I often use cannabis before I go to bed. But I do find that Magic Mind Sleep helps me also get to sleep faster, because sometimes, even when I do consume cannabis, my mind can race a little bit because I'm thinking of all the things that I have to do that's, I guess, entrepreneurial life and so the Magic Mind Sleep helps me get to sleep faster, enjoy a deeper sleep, and I use it often in conjunction with cannabis as well, and it's just one of the tools that I have in my toolkit to maximize these different areas of my mental wealth so I can improve my mental resilience, because that is really what helps keep you going each and every day. So I love Magic Mind Clarity Shot in the morning when I sit down to work, because that really does help me focus and remain undistracted, which can be challenging sometimes and the evenings I like Magic Mind Sleep.
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Speaker 1:Bite me, jam and try for yourself and see what you think. I would love to trade notes on it. You can always message me. You know where to find me. I'm all over the place, all over my little corner of the internet. By all means, reach out. I love hearing from listeners.
Speaker 1:So today we have a very special guest, karen of sense and purpose, and one of the things that stood out for me with her brand is how intentional she was about creating this brand for the beverages market. And in canada the beverages market, even though it still represents a pretty small portion of the overall cannabis market, seems to be growing. There's more interest in that segment and I don't go to dispensaries very often myself. Surprise, surprise, I make a lot of edibles. Overall, cannabis market seems to be growing, there's more interest in that segment and I don't go to dispensaries very often myself. Surprise, surprise, I make a lot of edibles. I make a lot of beverages, but when I do go to the dispensaries, one of the things I love to try are new beverages.
Speaker 1:The Sense and Purpose brand has a commitment to high quality ingredients and Karen is just a rock star. I hope you enjoy this interesting and well-rounded conversation with Karen. Please enjoy. I am joined today by with Karen from Sense and Purpose, and, karen, you have created a cannabis beverage company called Sense and Purpose and I'm really glad that you're taking the time to sit down with me today and talk about all things around cannabis beverages and Sense and Purpose. But before we get into all the meat and potatoes today, why don't you introduce yourself to the listeners of Bite Me?
Speaker 2:Sure, thank you, and thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here today. As I said, this is my very first podcast, so it's a milestone of itself, hopefully the beginning of some great things to come. But yeah, so I've been in the cannabis business for pretty much four or five years since legalization, but pre that I actually worked in consumer packaged goods and I was very much a corporate person. I worked with basically two companies my whole career. One was Quaker Oats, which was eventually bought by Pepsi, and so Pepsi would be Pepsi QTG, so that group for 18 years. And then I went on to lead Nestle Waters in Canada.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's a little bit about me. I personally that's business side. Personally, I'm a single mom, single parents, and have been since my two boys were two and four. They're now 29 and 31. So that was quite some time ago and happy to report that they're doing quite well and on their own. So I'm kind of feel like I'm living my long missed teenage years. I'm back to being on my own. My long missed teenage years. I'm back to being on my own.
Speaker 1:That's kind of nice, though, isn't it? Especially at a time in your life when you probably feel like you have a lot more knowledge and wisdom about how the world works.
Speaker 2:So, absolutely 10 years ago I quit the corporate world. I kind of quit life. Things were tougher back then. One of my sons was really struggling with addiction and mental illness, so I quit the world and I ultimately went traveling around Southeast Asia with a bunch of 20-year-olds. And I'll tell you that feeling I was 50 at the time but to your point, that feeling of basically being able to travel like a 20-year-old but with the budget and the wiseness or, if that's the right thing to look at, experience of a 50-year old it was a pretty fun experience, I must admit.
Speaker 1:That would have been amazing. Actually, I think that would be a lot of fun and like I love hanging around younger people, but then sometimes I'm reminded that oh yeah, I'm, I'm not 20 anymore and I love that. You mentioned that you were working with Quaker or Pepsi, because where I live, live there's a Quaker plant. I guess it would be Pepsi now, but they make. I'm not sure what they make, but the city often smells like like toasted oats or maple syrup and stuff and it's it's so nice, it's very refreshing, instead of having like a factory that's spewing out chemicals, it's spewing out deliciousness.
Speaker 2:I actually worked in that factory so that's a small world connection between you and I Because I did years and years ago, in the late 80s, I worked out of that building. Well, there was the plant and then there was the head office right across the river. I don't even know what they use it for now. I guess it's all just backup, because they did move to Toronto.
Speaker 2:But yeah, going in there and seeing they used to make Captain Crunch and yeah bars and all sorts of fun stuff, yeah, the instant oatmeal and oats and puffed rice, I think, even all kinds of things right when they were puffing it yeah, yeah, yeah, but people love Quaker oats.
Speaker 1:Why people still call it Quaker in town? But it's just well loved because it smells so good, so yeah no, that, that was where I got my foundation. Yeah, so you've, you've, we're in the consumer packaged goods. And then you decided to transition to the cannabis industry, which most people would think is not an easy transition to make because it's so highly regulated. What inspired you to venture into cannabis beverages?
Speaker 2:You know, it's interesting because it wasn't really a direct path. It wasn't like I woke up one day and went, oh, I'm going to go into cannabis, that'd be a good place to be. There was a lot of a big dose of naivety. I would say. I did not understand what such a highly regulated industry would mean, and I think that's a good thing, because if I did it's one of those things if I knew then what I know now, I might not have done what I did. Right, you know what I mean. But ultimately, where it happened is, as I mentioned just a minute ago, I had gotten to a point in my career. I was doing really, really well. I was set to go international, which is something I'd always wanted to do, and at the same time I was having huge challenges with one of my sons. And one of my sons was having huge challenges and it kind of I was getting. The more I was trying to help him, the less, the more unhealthy I was getting. So I was, I guess, burning the candle at both ends, trying to run the company, trying to, you know, help this child. That at the time we didn't know was schizophrenic and an addict. So, you know, it just got really tough. So I sort of stepped away from corporate world the beginning of that trip that I just told you about, just to get myself sort of healthy and, you know, mind, body, spirit, back to a place that when he was ready for help, I would be ready to help him. So in that journey, you know, after my travel and having a year of just a ton of fun really and learning myself and getting to know myself again, I started taking contracts because I was trying to figure out what I want to do when I grew up, at the young age of 51.
Speaker 2:And cannabis was becoming legal and I happened. So it's a bit of circumstance because I happened to be working for on a contract for a small water company, helping them get on its road to profitability, etc. The brand itself was called Canada Pure. I'm saying that because it has relevance in that about a year after working on the business, myself and another consultant had turned it around for the owner. He was really a tech guy. This was more of a passion project for him and he tasked us to sell it. Really a tech guy, this was more of a passion project for him and he tasked us to sell it and we were a bit like taken aback because we'd worked so hard and we turned this brand around for him and we were on a really good path and, in fact, cannabis was becoming legal.
Speaker 2:And as we're brainstorming ideas, it just hit me one day like Canada is known for amazing water, I certainly learned that when I was with Nestle waters. We're known for amazing weed. But they're both health, healthy products, are both good for you. And you know, I, just with my brain, I kind of went like, wow, what if you could put weed in water and make a functional drink that could help with things? So it was literally a bit of a dream. So circumstance and dream, you know, and and it just kind of went from there. So I got this little bee in my bonnet like wouldn't it be great to do that? I, my drive, my whole life, has been about affecting positive change. That gives me a ton of energy, so that would really affect some positive change and change some behavior. So, yeah, that's that's basically how it started.
Speaker 2:I knew nothing about the business of cannabis. All I knew is that I was a consumer of cannabis and I knew the benefits of cannabis. I used to call it mama's little helper at times, you know. So I knew that there was some really good health benefits to it, and so, the more I learned, and as I started to learn that you can control the effect of the cannabis based on you know, a ratio of cannabinoids and how many like I didn't even know what a cannabinoid was before I got into it, but knowing that there's different ones, it just really became this mission for me to develop the world's purest, cleanest, you know functional beverage, and at the time when I tried to buy the company, I just thought man, canada Pure, what a great name, right Like, for something that we were trying to do. Now, spoiler alert, I did not get the company, and in hindsight that was a very good thing, because then I started to learn about the regulations and I might not be able to do exactly what I was thinking at the time.
Speaker 1:Right, so you've also been a Lifeline cannabis user as well.
Speaker 2:I have been yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes. Do you have a preferred method of consumption?
Speaker 2:I almost hate to admit it and I'm trying very hard to change it, but yes, I have been a smoker pretty much all my life and now, with the legalization and we got to the convenience of pre-rolls, I would say that that's typically my preferred choice. However, now that we've got beverages, I am truly working towards 100% walking the talk and getting off of the smoking and onto the drinking of beverages and edibles as well. I actually am quite excited which is another reason I'm excited to be on your show today and learn from you is I just bought myself a first miracle butter maker.
Speaker 1:I think it is, oh nice, the magical butter maker miracle butter maker.
Speaker 2:I think it is, oh nice, the magical butter maker. Yeah, I want to learn how to make some edibles and and really get off of the smoking because, as we know, like um, combustion or smoking of any type is just not good.
Speaker 1:So yeah, well, it's interesting you mentioned that too because I had a guest on my show quite a while ago and he we were busting cannabis myths and one of the myths we talked about he felt that cannabis beverages were very akin to the effects you would get from smoking, much more similar in some respects than in edibles. And I mean in some ways that checks out, because usually the onset's a lot faster with a beverage. It doesn't last as long, and I've kind of you know it seems to check out a lot because I do enjoy the beverages a lot myself. I've kind of you know it seems to check out a lot because I do enjoy the beverages a lot myself, and so for those smokers out there who are trying to sort of stay away from that combustion that they know isn't so healthy for them, cannabis beverages can be a fantastic way to sort of replace that habit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I also build on that. It's totally true, it is like edibles. It is a little bit of a different, it's sort of a whole body. Yeah, I think bit of a different, it's sort of a whole body. Yeah, okay, I think. So it does have a different feeling.
Speaker 2:And then the beverages, depending. I mean there's rosin beverages, resin beverages, you know, there's the ones like mine that have different cannabinoids and different ratios. There's some that are just straight thc. So they do definitely, um, I think, because they do hit you harder or faster sorry, um, and come off, you come off of it faster you definitely get much more of that feeling, say, like a joint.
Speaker 2:But I would also say, and certainly for those legacy consumers out there like myself I've heard this a zillion times and what I tell them they're like oh, I'm never going to swap a beverage for my joint, it'll never do what I want it to do. So there's a couple of things. One, it's really quite complementary, and so for someone like myself that's trying to smoke less, my strategy to do that is I enjoy one of my own beverages, maybe two or three, while I'm smoking. But what I find is A, I smoke a heck of a lot less and B it kind of well, because more so than B, because it basically, you know, keeps your the beverage, complements the hot kind of keeps you guys there, and so it's helped me significantly cut down. And then of course, there's always times when you're in situations that you can't smoke anyways, and so it's great for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So beverages are wonderful all around, so that's why I probably talk about them so much on my show.
Speaker 2:I didn't ask you.
Speaker 1:Did you? You've tried the sense and purpose beverages did you? Yes, I did. Yeah, they were great and I think the favorite one that I tried was the recharge. Yeah, yeah, because that was the sparkling water, one with the juice, which was a really nice combination, because I love sparkling beverages and I often drink just plain sparkling water, but that's, uh, the juice that was with it was really nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that one was a pretty neat one. That's our latest addition to the family, uh, and what is unique about it relative to the other ones is it really truly is just juice and sparkling water. Yep, no sweeteners, no mask, you know, taste maskers or anything like that. And then, of course, the the, the emulsion in it with the cannabis, so and it tastes great. Right, it doesn't taste like that. And then, of course, the the, the emulsion in it with the cannabis, so and it tastes great. Right, it doesn't taste like cannabis. Did it taste like cannabis? No, no, not at all.
Speaker 1:Which is another reason why I like a lot of the cannabis beverages.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the intense the challenges that a lot of the my competitors use a ton of sugar to mask the taste. So being able to do something that's natural and with juice and I must admit there may be just a little influence from my past and working with brands like San Pellegrino sparkling fruit beverages, or, to me there is a little bit like I don't know if you know the drink Orangina Italian beverage as the San Pellegrino, so it's a little bit modeled after that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you, like you said, you obviously have the back, perfect background for that, because it was lovely and there is a bit of sugar in it, but it's really pretty marginal, especially when you look at some of the sugar content of other cannabis beverages out there. Some of them are really high, like more than a can of coke too. So you know and I, there's still a lot of great ones out there, but you kind of have to pick and choose when you might want to consume that sugar.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's not really as much of a concern.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, some of them are so high in sugar and you said it like they're more than a can of Coke. Again, just because I've been in that business for so long, I know that a can of Coke is 39 grams of sugar, you know, and that's a lot. And I've also learned that one gram of sugar is about the equivalent to four teaspoons of sugar, right, you know, when you've got some of these beverages, then that are like 40 grams of sugar. That visual, yeah, you can just imagine that pile of sugar.
Speaker 1:That's it, that's it.
Speaker 2:People are choosy when they take it. I think we're not about sort of avoiding those things, it's about moderation. But still, you can waste a lot of your I don't know your sugar allotment on one drink if you're not careful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, because I can't remember what the daily allotment for sugar intake of added sugar is supposed to be, but it's definitely not 39 grams. It's a lot lower than that, I think. So, yeah, you do have to pick and choose those those occasions when you're going to use those higher sugar beverages.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, that was what we were trying to address too. One of the things is knowing that again, this is where I feel like I've got a little bit of an unfair advantage because of my background. But just knowing and being so close to consumer trends and watching them for you know, certainly when I went to, it became more, even more prevalent when I went to Nestle waters, because that's all we did was water or water but just watching the consumer trends and the and the growth and focus on health and wellness, right. So I knew that low sugar was. Avoiding sugar is something that folks are trying to do. Yeah, yeah, you can get into the zero sugar and seltzers. That's a pretty big segment in alcohol and in water, as you mentioned. Um, zero calories, zero sugar, I often think, zero taste. So I was trying to find something in between. Yeah, had a decent taste, was all natural, was low, was low in and low in sugar.
Speaker 1:So yeah Well, you accomplished that goal for sure. But I wanted to also touch on cause you kind of mentioned it a little bit earlier about the purpose behind Sense and Purpose Like why did you choose that name? What's sort of behind that, that idea?
Speaker 2:You know it's interesting. So it wasn't like right off the top. Like most things I'm learning, they never come right to you right away. We went through a few reiterations to get to the brand name and it was quite a fun process and when we got there it was one of those things that's going to sound silly. It just made sense Like it was all of a sudden like that. But really the idea there's a couple of things.
Speaker 2:So behind Sense and Purpose, sense itself is about our mission to help people. Certainly new consumers, and that's really who we are targeted at is. If I had to call it a bullseye target, it's more that new consumer. But it was to help people make sense of this world of cannabis, because I truly do believe that cannabis has purpose in everyday life. So that's kind of the easiest to you know base premise of it.
Speaker 2:At the same time, sense is also about the sort of sensory experience that we want to create. So we don't just put like we're not knocking off pop and some traditional flavors. We're really thinking through the ingredients that we use. We're using ingredients that bring inherent claims already on their own and we've got things like green tea paired with ginger juice, with lemon juice, you know, to give really a great sensory effect.
Speaker 2:So that's the other kind of meaning behind sense, and the secondary meaning behind purpose is exactly that, is it sort of reflects, you know, intention, I guess would be the best way to say it. And so it was crafting a product that had a really meaningful role, like I absolutely wanted these products to have a purpose in people's life, whether it's relaxing or whether it's, you know, connection or self-care or whatever it might be. It was about having a purpose for these beverages. So there's a couple of double entendres, I guess, in there really, but sense and purpose, when you put it all together, I guess at the end of the day it just really reflects our commitment to sort of balance and a balanced life and a wellness life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really like that, and it's interesting that you mentioned that about like the new consumer, because I don't think my sister listens to this show, but she's coming down to visit me soon and she has agreed to try some cannabis beverages. I think the last time we shared cannabis together was in high school and she did not like it, so she hasn't really touched cannabis since then, but she's willing to try some cannabis beverages, some very low dose ones, so I'm excited to share some with her, just to see. You know, let her test it out, because it's been a very long time and she's kind of curious about it too. Right, a lot of people are curious in coming to cannabis through beverages.
Speaker 2:You know it's interesting. I've seen a lot of that and first of all I have to make sure I get you some more sense and purpose so that you can try them.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, so I've got it. So in my age group I'm actually outside of the bullseye group as much as I like to think I'm in it, because I think I'm a lot younger than I really am. But I started doing is I'm trying to figure out ways to get to the consumer and I'm recognizing that they are very there's a lot that are curious but very, very hesitant. So I started doing house parties and just so that you have more of that one on one experience, you can help people. They feel a little bit, you know, safer, I guess, trying it, doing exactly what you're doing with your sister. So that's awesome. We need more people doing that.
Speaker 2:But you know, when I start to show them and I will make them, I've got a cocktail recipe for pretty much each one of them and I can, you know, recharge, for example, that we were talking about, which is basically juice and sparkling water. People have told me it's like a mimosa in a can, so I can show them. You know, oh, if you put in a quarter of the can and you use some really good non-alcoholic uh, sparkling wine or prosecco, and that's what I do, is I make mimosas with it. Oh, very nice, I like that, oh, this tastes great.
Speaker 2:And then you know, it's funny to see them start to get a little bit of the buzz at times and they kind of they get giggly and they love it, and it just eases them into it with like, uh, oh, okay, I don't really have that big of reason to be afraid of this. So, yeah, I love that, I love what you're doing with there. I think, yeah, that's kind of one of my strategies is to try to build a whole slew of friends and family brand ambassadors, because I really do think it's that they need, I feel like, especially the women, we need that comfort, that trust, you know, when we're trying it, especially when it's the first time.
Speaker 1:Well, it's the set and setting right Like they talk about set and setting a lot with psychedelics, but it applies 100% to cannabis, for sure as well. And if they're comfortable and they're with somebody that they believe knows what they're doing, they'll be a lot more comfortable, and that's half the battle, right there.
Speaker 2:The trust, right the trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. But I like the idea with the sparkling, the non-alcoholic sparkling wine. I think I'll have to try that out because a lot of I find a lot of people also aren't drinking as much anymore, because she doesn't drink almost at all, because, like a lot of women I know that are getting older, they find that alcohol doesn't really agree with them anymore no, and you know what?
Speaker 2:that is a huge, I wouldn't even say trend. I think it's becoming a movement and I know there's the term cali sober that's floating around right of just no, like cannabis only and no alcohol, but it is growing, whether it's male or female, certainly, as I said, giving away my age, I'm about to break into a new decade, so my age group, like we're, definitely it's not even that it doesn't agree with our bodies in that we can't recover like we used to, right yeah, with the liver damage et cetera. So, yeah, no, that's a huge trend. That, I believe, is what will set cannabis beverages up in general to just really really take off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think. So it's definitely still a pretty small market segment, but it's. I just see it growing more and more and, as I've had this podcast now for about five years, just people are talking about it more and more and there's definitely the interest I've seen a huge change in the conversation from four years ago, when I first started getting out there and actually trying to sell in my product stuff, to now the conversation is it's miles ahead.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. And then you look down to the US. Oh my God, that's my dream in Minnesota. Now they've got a little bit of a loophole because they have the farm bill, which legalized hemp and product made from hemp. At the time I don't think they realized that hemp, which does, it's the same as cannabis. It just has less than 0.3 percent THC, that it actually can form a form of THC that is just as potent as from cannabis, but it's being sold outside of the cannabis act. So in regular wine stores, like literally, there's a store I've seen pictures of it. It's here's your beer drinks, here's your cooler drinks, here's your thc drinks, and huge displays and you know it's really cool to see that and and I I think one day that'll be like that here, but uh I would love that.
Speaker 1:And did you mention minnesota in particular, or just as just general in the states?
Speaker 2:no, it's minnesota in particular, where I think they were kind of the lead in um I don't want to say the name or get it wrong, but I think it was six points wine company. It was a specific company that sort of really grasped all of it.
Speaker 1:Now more and more states are, so it is starting to spread across the states well, because I do have listeners in minnesota as well and they told me that they are a lot of the bars like you can go to like a bar and buy a cannabis drink, and I was just like that would be such a game changer Because a lot of the times like I have to be careful when I drink. A lot of times you're you know if you've driven to a place you have to think about that and I just also don't want to be laid out for a whole day or longer if I get a hangover which takes less and less alcohol these days. So I think that was really forward thinking as far as Minnesota goes and I wish Canada would be a little more forward thinking on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're just ultimately hugely conservative, as we all know, and you know what good reason. I think, like with Health Canada, the whole approach was start low and go slow. Yeah, really, really, really tight regulations, and I know a lot of people were kind of ticked off because it seemed in the time leading up to just legalization in 2018. And then beverages and edibles were a year later, it felt like they kept changing regulations and making them even tighter, and so you know there was some frustration but at the same time, with their mandate of just trying to keep quality, keep it out of hands of kids, the safety, you know, the theory is it's always easier to loosen a regulation than it is.
Speaker 2:And that's what's happened in the U S, like they've gotten themselves into a little bit of a pickle, but it's um. I think it's a good place to be and I know it's going to start here in in alberta. I would say alberta is our forward thinking portion of the cannabis industry and so two years ago I believe it was they started allowing it at like comedy festivals and and great guests and stuff concerts. They learned a bit in how they executed it. It was allowed again this year with opening it up a little bit more in terms of, you know, having space, a consumption area, whatever. So I think it's coming. I think it's coming.
Speaker 1:So you're saying that you could go to a comedy festival and you could. You could get a beer or you could get a cannabis beverage or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it wasn't quite that simple. It was like there was a segregated area and the first year that they did it, I believe literally like they would be in conjunction with a retailer and they you could almost like order it instantly and the retailer would then bring it I see that space and deliver it there. As it evolved from what I understand this past year was more about a retailer could actually have a little kiosk right on site, but it was still in a segregated area, you know away from from the alcohol, right, but I think it's only a matter of time where yeah, before they're next to each other.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know, obviously I'm a bit biased, but uh, both again for beverages and for health and wellness, because you, you know, no matter which way you look at it, a cannabis beverage is going to do a heck of a lot less damage to you than alcohol. Like it's, it's an old person in alcohol right.
Speaker 2:It's hurting our liver, it's hurting our brain, like look at the issues. So I think once we kind of health Canada and and you know we've experimented enough with it they get their heads around this and quite understand that. You know it's a no brainer in my mind, so I just hope I don't have to see it.
Speaker 1:I know Right Cause sometimes these things seem to take a long time, but I know there's people working on this kind of thing, so, and I am grateful that we also have federal legalization and not the you know sort of the state by state model that they're doing right now in the US, so there's definitely a huge advantage to that alone. So, eventually, because also being able to buy a cannabis drink at a comedy festival sounds like the perfect combination to me, like that's what.
Speaker 1:I would love yeah. Now, as far as sense of purpose goes, what have been some of the biggest, biggest challenges that you faced in bringing this product to market? Um?
Speaker 2:probably not necessarily what you would think. I would say the biggest challenges were and continue to be one raising money, which links directly to cash flow. But when I say cash flow, what I've learned is that really means picking the right manufacturer partner. Manufacturer partner. So because of the sort of excitement let's call it around cannabis in the early days and these huge valuations on companies that then, really, five years later, you know, had to not downsize, I'd say right size.
Speaker 2:They were building empires. They had so much money, they were spending it on things that you know. They were building their buys without looking at what the market could hold, could bear and, as a result, there's been a real cloud over cannabis. Then you throw in a few little extra twists, like COVID, high inflation rate and interest rates. Now I kind of look back at this. All you can do is laugh, because otherwise you'd cry. But you know, I started product development in April 2020.
Speaker 2:Like we were on, we had, you know, we had just we'd raised some money, or we were on our way to doing that and all of a sudden COVID hit. So that really threw a wrench at first. And again, I think, like any big challenge, it does depend on how you approach it, because I started to look at it as an opportunity and so it worked out well. But so that would be one is raising the money. There's been this cloud over it. So even today we're about to start it.
Speaker 2:I've been trying for two years to raise money. I've had to sell fun because I just can't. People just are not interested in cannabis in Canada right now. So you know, unless you're a $40 million company no-transcript. So when they get paid for your order from, say, the ocs, the ontario cannabis store, they just kind of keep that money to help solve their own problems and they're not passing it along. So you know, we had a huge challenge. I had to leave one manufacturer because of it, almost on a high point. I relaunched this year in Cannes, so again able to take a negative and turn it into a positive.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, it's kind of the boring business side. That's been the biggest challenge, to be honest, when in fact I thought it would be more about building the brand, when you were so interested in what you could put on a can or what you can say or you know, I thought that would be the bigger challenge, but in fact it's really been some of the business fundamentals yeah, and those are pretty significant challenges from the sounds of it and you're not the first person that I've heard that that aspect of the business is really difficult.
Speaker 1:So, which is unfortunate, because I think that you would have more people participating, I guess, with some really interesting stuff, if it wasn't so problematic to raise the money and and deal with the licenses and all that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, well on the other side of it, it that it does really kind of hurt my heart and I don't know what to do with it. I'd like to do something about it. I don't know what it means yet, but is what I see is I see it really is kind of squishing the little guy out of the market? Yeah, you know, and we're called Canadian fashion, we're getting very consolidated and it's a couple or a few big big players that are dominating and you know, the smaller, entrepreneurial, like little brands like myself are really struggling to survive and I've unfortunately seen a lot of them not survive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's unfortunate, no matter what industry you're talking about, because it's the smaller brands that I think bring a lot of interesting things to the market. Cannabis is definitely no exception and, yeah, when you, when you have, like these huge businesses, they're just not as receptive, they're not as agile, I guess, and they're the stuff that they're putting out just isn't as interesting, I think.
Speaker 2:Well, and I mean, we're all focused on business. So I don't want this to come across the wrong way, but I think there is a different level of passion when you're dealing with the entrepreneur directly. Right, and so yes, for me. I hope to, you know, make some decent money out of it and maybe retire one day. But it really isn't about the money. It was about being able to bring a really amazing product to market that does something, that's going to help people, and so the creativity. You can lose that, Whereas a big company, you know they tend to be all about OK, well, where's the volume today?
Speaker 2:And we're seeing that in our category, for example, with beverages, 70 percent of the category of the products in the category are, you know, the maximum THC of a soda, whether it's a craft soda or a knockoff of root beer or cream soda, or you know what it is. And taste is iffy. Certainly, in the beginning they were awful, but then that's when I started adding the sugar. But you know why? Because right now, the majority of the cannabis segment is typically male, typically sort of 30-ish. They don't care as much about sugar, they're more interested in getting a buzz or whatever it is. So that's where the market is today. Who is out there looking for the future? And I'm not sure that the big guys are really prepared to do that, because they need to see a return a lot faster.
Speaker 1:Right, it becomes a little unfair to say, but yeah, a bit of a generalization, but that's what I see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it's entrepreneurs like you that are changing the game and bringing out these interesting products, and you have your ear to the ground when it comes to some of these other people who are consuming them, like it's not just the 30 year old guy, it's like someone like me who's in my forties and I have a very different perspective on the world. So we need folks like you to be putting these things out. So I hope, on that same vein, you can share some of the wins or the milestones that you've hit. I'm sure it hasn't all been challenges. I'm sure there's been some good, some good positives as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, look, I did realize, I would say, one of the biggest challenges in general. I'm not sure that a lot of people have been able to do it I'm very proud of the fact that I have but it's just shifting from that corporate world to that entrepreneurial world where you know, corporate world, you've got systems, you've got processes, you've got data, you've got all sorts of things. In this world it's a little bit like all over the place. So, yeah, no, we've had some really amazing wins.
Speaker 2:You know, if I think and I was thinking about some of the things that have, you know, just, I get such a high from no pun intended, cause I haven't spoken anything the bit one of the big big ones was, you know, we were I was about two and a half years into this like researching and trying to figure out how to make it happen before we finally raised our first bit of capital and we were at the point where it was like, okay, we're either going to go somewhere or we're not.
Speaker 2:And you know so, when we closed that sort of first lead investor in that first round quite honestly, the only round so far and that was able to get us to market, I just remember how excited we were and we had done so much prep and work that we were ready to just go, so from closing the capital to making. I think we were, and we had done so much prep and work that we were ready to just go. So from closing the capital to making, I think we were in market within six months, which was pretty cool. Um, I would say, another big, big one which all the time gets me excited is when I see some of the results coming in. So in alberta, I just thought somebody was doing some due diligence on Sense and Purpose.
Speaker 2:We've been having some talks about maybe working together and told me that guess what we're like? We've been consistently ranked the number seven best-selling brand in Alberta for beverages. There's 70 or 80 brands, so I'm pretty excited about that. I know we launched in cans was another big, big highlight this year because I launched in a bottle initially for a very specific reason. It was COVID. We couldn't get the right cans. I'm out of efficacy, you know. I didn't want the cannabinoids leaching into the can liner, so I went in bottles. But I knew ultimately I needed to be in a can. So switching manufacturers last year, getting a new contracts, getting away from the one that wasn't paying me and then being able to launch in cans, but really seeing how quickly we were almost out of market for a year and then we got right back up to 300 stores carrying us so quickly, and that just tells me that the retailers get it, they understand it. So I don't know. I could go on forever.
Speaker 1:No, but that's great though, because if you didn't have those wins, then you probably wouldn't be sitting here right now talking to me, because you would have given up by now.
Speaker 2:Well, that's it. Yeah, yeah, Like those wins, keep going. I have to say, margaret, though and I do a lot of events, because that's the one way you get that interaction we leverage technology a ton. We're very strategic. We're a very small team. I joke, I'll say we're a team of three me, myself and I, you know, but I actually do have a fourth person that is with me on this journey, and but when we're at events and I just did the kind winter fair show but when I see somebody like oh, beverages, and they're like very skeptical and they all taste like this, and then they taste it, and to see that look on their face, and then all of a sudden, they're like whoa, like what is this? And then you get into this, full on conversation.
Speaker 1:Like that in itself is probably the number one thing that gives me the energy to keep going Right yeah, dealing directly with the people who are consuming your product, for sure, which is a really nice segue into my next question. And because you're a small business, you're an entrepreneur, you are interacting with the people that you're like the customers. What kind?
Speaker 2:of feedback do you get, generally speaking, from the customers that are drinking your drinks? We get. We almost always, like 99% of the time, we get really positive feedback. The things that they're most surprised about is that it tastes good and, believe me, in the first couple of years of cannabis beverages again, we were a year later, so we've been legal since 2019. So the first two to three years, even now like they did not taste good.
Speaker 1:So I remember that yeah.
Speaker 2:People are typically surprised in a good way at how great they taste. And then when we get into the conversation of what they are and like, literally I have four ingredients, you know, outside of the emulsion, which takes up two lines on my ingredient sort of list, I maybe four ingredients in each one, as I'm very clean and very low in sugar. So people are always amazed at that. And then usually the third most common comments I get, almost always in this order too, is the dosages that we're using and the fact that we're playing with ratios of THC to CBD to give an effect.
Speaker 2:We're not allowed to tell you about it, but that's why I named my beverages that way like refocus, recharge, relax. They actually do what they say that they do. And what's even more fun is now I'm running into consumers at some of these shows, or bartenders and retailers that have actually now tried the drink, and so every time I get the feedback like oh my God, this actually does. What you said it was going to do is just amazing. It's almost to the point that I started to think maybe they're all just blowing smoke up my butt because no one has had anything negative yet.
Speaker 2:Like. The most negative I've had is oh, I don't like grapefruit, or I can't have grapefruit because it affects my whatever medication.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I didn't run into that, obviously, but I'm sure they're not blowing smoke up your ass because you're putting out a great product, so why would they Well?
Speaker 2:exactly, and they don't know me, so why would they? But yeah, sometimes I just I think I continue to be surprised at just how well received they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, that's great to hear and that's got to be part of the. The wins that you're experiencing is when you get that wonderful feedback from people. But that does. That does bring up the question of how you see stigma still showing up in the work that you're doing, because I tend to forget myself because, like my whole world is around cannabis I'm talking to cannabis people, I mean like it's just all cannabis and then I remember there's people like my sister who doesn't consume. Now she's pretty open-minded, being considering what I do, but there are a lot of people out there who still have a lot of stigma around cannabis and kind of, you know, turn their nose up to it or whatever. Are you encountering that very much in the work that you're doing?
Speaker 2:I've definitely come across it and I would agree with you that it is probably still our biggest challenge. Again, I'm the type of person that a challenge means an opportunity, so I think it is our biggest challenge. Again, I'm a type of person that a challenge means an opportunity, so I think it is our biggest opportunity. I do think it is starting to fade quite quickly, which is great. I think I've also learned there's some people you're just never going to change their mind, right, so I'm learning to back away from those pretty quickly. But the majority of people that I'm coming across, also in my family like I'm. I'm all about cannabis as well. As I said up front, I've consumed my whole life. Not that most of my family knew that. That's only recent that they've learned that, um, but most of them are not. Like.
Speaker 2:I grew up in a generation of basically drinkers and so even my friend group they're all drinkers and they're very hesitant. There's some stigmas there. Some of them I've not tried push it, but I find the majority of them are quite open and one of the probably the most surprising things when I think of this stigma and how it's going away the fastest group growing group of cannabis consumers is like 60 plus Right, I've actually been asked to come into my mom's in a retirement home. I've been asked to come in and, you know, demo my beverages and talk about them and, quite frankly, I'm nervous to do that. I haven't, I will. I haven't done it yet. I'm actually like called the cannabis nurses because, quite honestly, I'm too afraid to go and talk about a recreational product in a setting like that with people that I don't know what meds they're on.
Speaker 2:So right, you know, I think there's a lot of work we have to do there. But the point is my 83 year old mother drinks half a can of relax every night to go to bed so that she can stay asleep. So the stigma is there. I think my takeaway would be the stigma is there, it's definitely fading fast. We're doing our part, you and me, to sort of help get rid of that stigma and I think the more we bring it out in our conversations like certainly now all of a sudden around my friend group, it's like no one's like, oh, you're in cannabis. It's, you know, it's just a conversation, how's business? What are?
Speaker 1:you doing and people find it interesting. But when you mention that it's the 60 plus group where that demographic, that interest is growing a lot, it's surprising. But it's not surprising because cannabis is so effective at so many at so helping people with so many different ailments. So the fact that your mom, for example, uses it to help her sleep. And then there's also the the idea too that a lot of older folks they, like you said, some people will never change their mind, but they might be open to trying a cannabis topical because those can also be super effective.
Speaker 1:So that's uh, you know, if they're, if they don't want to get high, and some people just don't, then there's definitely other options that the plant can offer them too.
Speaker 2:So that's what makes this thing so wonderful well and I think, right there you're hitting it is. People are starting to understand slow, slow it's lagging even a little bit, but that it's not always about getting high. Yeah, right, you know, know, you get into some of these CBD and the minor cannabinoids like CBN and CBG and CBC. You know, I don't know, I was doing some research because I want to get into that with my drinks. Cbn is a minor cannabinoid that I found out apparently has been used for like 50 years to treat insomnia, but we didn't know about that, right? So I think the more that people are learning and understanding that it's not just about getting buzzed, they're definitely that goes a long way to getting rid of the stigma.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think, especially with probably older folks as well, just because the idea of setting an intention or using it intentionally resonates with a lot of folks, because they just don't want to feel like they're just I don't know. I mean, I'm too old to be like I'm getting wrecked. That's not where I'm at in my life right now, like maybe 20 years ago that might've been a different story, but you know that's that's not what I'm trying to do these days.
Speaker 2:So no, I hear you a hundred percent. It's not my favorite activity anymore.
Speaker 1:Now are you doing anything else with sense and purpose around the concept of educating consumers about responsible consumption?
Speaker 2:We're doing our best within the limitations that we have. I always believe in pushing the envelope. So yeah, I mean we've got an education for sure. Education is at the base of everything we do, from retailers and bud tenders onward. You know, when I get new listings I'm pretty insistent.
Speaker 2:I mean, of course I'm not going to turn it down, but I really push for saying I want the ability to train and educate your staff, because they're the ones that are going to be influencing the consumer. So definitely do a lot there. I've got training videos and that sort of thing that we do with them, with the consumer. It really is always trying to put it in that guise of not guise of, but like in that realm of education and talking about how it can help them and the function I think I've done. I know I'm pretty sure I've taken a different approach than most. I really have approached this not as a not like cannabis beverages, not as a cannabis opportunity, like not as just another format of cannabis. I've really approached it as a beverage opportunity and it's a functional beverage opportunity and our function just happens to come from cannabis.
Speaker 1:So Right, yeah, so you're really taking the lead on that and saying because the bud tenders, too, have a pretty important role, because they are the customer facing employee at any dispensary and people are curious, they want to know, yeah, so education wise.
Speaker 2:I'm really keen.
Speaker 2:It's just a brand new relationship I'm starting to form, but I met a few weeks ago maybe a month ago now in Calgary I was out there for an event and, as I said, I mentioned this group called. I met this group called the Cannabis Nurses and you know they do a lot of work with veterans and you know helping elderly and educating. When I told them one of my concerns about going into a retirement home, they're like, well, let's do it together because we know that side of it and the product. So, yeah, looking forward to doing, you know, more collaborations where education is at the forefront of it.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think that's really important too, especially on the medical side, because even though it's legal here, there's a lot of medical professionals that are still hesitant to prescribe cannabis, if you will Like. If I go to my doctor, I'm probably they're probably not going to tell me, oh, just use some cannabis, like. That's just not where they're at yet and they need some of that education which they're probably not getting in medical school. So these types of collaborations are really important and it sounds interesting because, like you said, there's older folks in nursing homes that want to know about this stuff and they'd be really interested.
Speaker 2:There's also younger folks too, you know, and I look back with I don't know if it would have helped, but I look back at the situation with my son and you know, in hindsight, which is always 2020. And we look back way back to when sort of his challenges started and he was smoking a lot of weed and because I'm tolerant of weed, I kind of thought he's a rebellious teenager. He's going to grow out of it. You know what I mean. But what I realized and learned was that he was self medicatingicating because he was anxious and he, you know, he couldn't sit still and there was all sorts of issues going on that he was trying to calm himself because he was too embarrassed to talk about the anxiety he's feeling. Unfortunately, society today and we could go a whole other podcast just probably on that but there's a lot of young people, middle-aged people, like we're all.
Speaker 1:Mental illnesses, yeah, challenge yeah yeah, and it's not something that gets talked enough about, and I don't know if there's sometimes enough funding, even in canada, for mental health services and stuff because, there's still stigma around that as well, for sure to come out openly and say you're having these struggles, but it's also not surprising, because I feel like we live in some really weird times right now too, and if you're already having some struggles with mental health and then you pile on all the weird shit that's happening right now, it's it's uh, cannabis can be very helpful, but it's also that's when you probably need a little more guidance as far as using, as you're not self-medicating.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I live right near CAMH. I'm here because of my son. That's how I got to this area. And the whole model is about harm reduction.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, and I kind of look at it, I even look at myself, like before I quote quit the world in 2015,. I mean, I was drinking too much, I was smoking too much. I smoking too much, I was talking too much, I was working too much, like I was just, and you know, had I had something like sense and purpose available to me, I honestly believe I would have, would have been in a very different place right now. I went away, I fasted for 28 days and I detox and I did all that great fun stuff that you needed to do, cause it's not just about you know, not drinking, so to speak. But yeah, there's, I think we there's a huge place in the world for this type of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Now, how has working in the cannabis industry changed your perspective on cannabis, because you already mentioned that you've been sort of a lifelong cannabis user. Has your perspective changed at all?
Speaker 2:I would say, if anything, it's probably broadened and sort of grown even more to love what it can do.
Speaker 2:As I said, I've learned a ton, but when you start to really understand how it's been used, like I didn't know CBN and had been used for insomnia for 40 years and we use, you know, did it in different formats. I would say it's really helped me grow, um, and really appreciate it. And I've loved, as I've learned, the industry. You know you have to network, that's the way you you learn from other people and just to see how it's impacted and affected so many people in such a positive way and the different uses yeah, I have absolutely. I would love being in the industry. Um, I'm not afraid or shy or nervous to tell anybody I'm in cannabis anymore. I might have been a little bit at the beginning. I will admit Like oh, what are they going to think of me? And I did actually I lost one or two friends over it, to be honest, into cannabis, because they're like how could you do that with a son having the challenges you have? And they just thought it was very poor taste.
Speaker 2:So you have to kind of let those ones go and work through that, you know. But just to see and know the benefits, it's incredible.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, well, that makes a lot of sense to me because I know before I started this podcast I knew some stuff about weed, but not that much I realize now I actually think I do very little. Actually, I remember there was a point in my life quite a while ago that, you know, I used to think that the strain names, the cult of our names, are just kind of made up and I suppose, like I, just there was a lot I didn't know. So legalization and having this show has I've just learned so much and legalization in particular, because you people are free to do more research and talk about it openly and it's not underground and hidden, and that a hundred years of prohibition has kind of set back the research a lot. But that's all changing now, which is really exciting to see. So it's an exciting time to be in cannabis as well, especially in Canada, because we're kind of leading the charge in the world, which is really exciting as well.
Speaker 2:So yeah, you know and it is. There's sometimes it's frustrating that we do. You know the research is opening up. It's awesome, but there's also been anecdotal research for thousands of years about how amazing this plant is, but I didn't know any of that.
Speaker 2:I never would have thought to go and look into that. And it's only when you start to learn more because we're in it that you realize it. And yeah, it's empowering, it's exciting. You feel like you're part of something that's really positive. You know, and anything is going to have both sides Someone could always take advantage of whatever the situation is. But yeah, no, I think it's been pretty amazing.
Speaker 1:So for yourself and for Sense and Purpose, where do you see Sense and Purpose? And yourself in say five years?
Speaker 2:Well, I would love to see Sense and Purpose as a much larger company. So Sense and Purpose is my brand. I just wanted to say something. And Woven with two V's is the company Right, and the whole idea of Woven is with the two V's was, I fully believe. When you weave things together, it becomes much, much stronger. So my whole approach to business is about working with partners and bringing in like-minded business partners, not employees right and contracts and stuff. So Sense and Purpose being our first brand, it's got a lot of legs and it's got a lot of places it can go in the immediate future because of really funding.
Speaker 2:I see us rounding out the platform or the family. Like I did have a recover in a little elixir shot. It was in Alberta, didn't get accepted here, it's a bit ahead of of its time. I see getting that into um, into a can, and I see maybe some flavor extensions. But I also see us getting into with that brand getting into and in five years I'd love to be the ones that are like the wellness leaders. We've got a menopause drink, we've got a. You know that'd be great. An old person drink a sleep, whatever. Like there's so many places to go, so I want to go into minor cannabinoids and continue to work with ratios in that.
Speaker 2:But I also have a couple of other brands in my back pocket that I've trademarked. One that I've sort of trademarked and earmarked sorry, in my mind specifically targeted at the 2SLGBTQ plus community Big cornerstone of cannabis and its legalization. I also happen to be part of the community so of course I want to support my community um, so I think that's pretty exciting. And then I have another one um that is, I would say, earmarked really for that gen z. This is the generation that's grown up only knowing cannabis being legal, basically, yeah, and they really aren't drinkers like alcohol drinkers. Uh, now, I'm very conscious and there I think there's some absolute legitimacy about you know what cannabis can do to a young brain, so I don't want to quote market at them, market to them until they get to some point.
Speaker 2:I think they're the lead gen zeds now are somewhere around 22, 23, I believe. So you know, I think it's probably only a matter of some time to get that. So yeah, I see the company just continuing to expand and, you know, hopefully I can continue to lead it.
Speaker 1:Well, that all sounds wonderful and also sounds like you're going to be really busy over the next few years, which is exciting. But something you said to me that really stood out is the collaboration component, because I love the concept of collaboration versus competition, because I feel like it's just the way forward. Competition can be so negative and often is a lot of the times.
Speaker 2:And I think it can be limiting right. I like to think of it as coopetition, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I chat to other beverage owners and it also comes back to all, or what is it? All tides, tides lift, all boats.
Speaker 1:Yes, Something like that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Every time I say it, I go, I've I gotta go check that one and get it straight. But basically, tides lift all boats. So, yeah, you know, if I'm talking and collaborating or doing a sharing space in a, an event, with another beverage brand, as long as we're not positioned at the exact same target, it doesn't matter. I mean humans, we drink on average 10 beverages a day. So, right, I'm not expecting and and I I'd be, I think, silly to think that, oh, you know, I'm going to dominate cannabis beverages and I want everybody to drink only sense and purpose, like that's never going to happen and you don't want that to happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the competition for a day because I have recover, recharge, refocus and relax, so I've right eat them all at the time of day so you can. You know, one fits at any occasion um in the day. But yeah, no, I, I totally about the working together, I think. Yeah, I kind of feel like that's a more of a female thing too in our style of leadership, you know, I think I think so too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Cause I've been like I had 2024 as my year of community and so I've been a lot of the interviews I've been doing. This concept of collaboration, when I've been talking to, to guests on the show that were female or women, that seems to come up really naturally. It's not something I had to bring up myself and I find that really interesting and I love it because I had to bring up myself and I find that really interesting and I love it because I really think, like I said, collaboration is the way forward. We've historically had a lot of competition and I'm tired of it.
Speaker 2:We've got a huge, huge, huge world. There's room for everybody. Yes, exactly yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So just to wrap up here before we go what would surprise people about you?
Speaker 2:Hmm, often my age does Right Right. Often they think I'm a lot younger than I am.
Speaker 1:And I can see you, the people listening. You'll have to go, perhaps, to the show notes to check out the video, but you definitely do look younger than your age.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, and I have white hair, so that's surprising. It looks kind of blonde, platinum blonde. Yeah, yeah, it's all natural. This is COVID hair, by the way, I don't color it. What would surprise people about me? I mean, I think probably, uh, the most people are most surprised when they learned that I've smoked cannabis all my life, especially since I was in the corporate world and I was pretty high up in the corporate world. I think that's a little bit of a surprise, um, but that is definitely be surprising, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great way to wrap up because a lot of the times I realized from doing this show and talking to so many people that people who use cannabis come from all walks of life and period. That's it.
Speaker 2:So that's, it yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, karen, I just want to say thank you so much for talking with me today. This has been a really interesting conversation and, of course, I wish you all the best in the next year, the next few years, and I'll be watching what you're doing. And thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for having me on, and I love what you're doing as well, margaret, in terms of just helping break down that stigma, helping us understand different uses and different ways to enjoy it, and I think together we are making changes. So we're making a change, so I love it, thank you.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Karen as much as I did. I think she's fabulous and I love to see strong, smart, capable women entrepreneurs shaking up their category space, and I have had the pleasure of interviewing many of them on this very show. Which is one of the things that keeps me going is just highlighting the stories and voices of people who are doing cool things in the cannabis space, and if you haven't had a chance to check it out already, do check out last week's episode on edibles trends. Karen has some thoughts that she shared about her predictions for 2025, as did a handful of other interesting people in the cannabis space. I think you would find that interesting if you haven't listened to that one yet and, of course, by all means, let me know about what you think about this episode, or maybe you have your own 2025 predictions that you would like to share. Don't forget that you can also get 45% off your Magic Mind bundle with my link, magicmindcom. Forward slash, bite me, jam and until next week, my friends, I'm your host, margaret. Stay high.
