Bite Me The Show About Edibles
Create your own tasty, healthy cannabis edibles and take control of your high life! Bite Me is a weekly show that helps home cooks make fun, safe and effective cannabis edibles. Listen as host Margaret walks you through an marijuana infused recipe that she has tested in her home kitchen or interviews with expert guests. New episodes every Thursday.
Bite Me The Show About Edibles
LCBO to THC: Jackie McAskill’s Bold Move into Cannabis Beverages
What happens when an alcohol industry veteran pivots to the world of cannabis beverages? Jackie, co-founder of Sheesh Hash Colas, joins us to share her transformative journey from being a senior buyer at LCBO, one of the world's largest alcohol buyers, to discovering the therapeutic benefits of CBD for back pain. Her story is one of innovation and passion, driving her to a director role at Hexo and eventually founding Sheesh Hash Colas. Jackie’s unique perspective on the emerging cannabis beverage market offers listeners a fascinating glimpse into the intersection of two dynamic industries.
Drawing on her extensive background in wine buying, Jackie discusses the parallels between the wine and cannabis industries. We explore how concepts of provenance and strain history play crucial roles in both fields, and how she's leveraging her expertise to craft high-quality cannabis beverages. The conversation also touches on the societal challenges that cannabis faces, such as slower acceptance and gender bias, and the efforts underway to create a more inclusive industry. Jackie's insights paint a vivid picture of the evolving landscape and the opportunities that lie ahead.
Discover the unique appeal of Sheesh Hash Colas as we talk about integrating cannabis into social occasions and its potential as an alcohol alternative. Jackie shares the inspiration behind the name "Sheesh" and the thoughtful branding that sets their products apart. From the sensory enhancements cannabis offers to the growing popularity of cannabis beverages during events like Dry January, this episode is packed with valuable insights. Whether you're a cannabis connoisseur or simply curious about the future of cannabis beverages, Jackie's story and expertise will captivate and inform.
Visit the website for full show notes, free dosing calculator, recipes and more.
Friends, you're listening to episode 264, where I sit down with Jackie, co-founder of Sheesh Hash Colas. Welcome to Bite Me, the show about edibles, where I help you take control of your high life. I'm your host and certified ganger, Margaret, and I love helping cooks make safe and effective edibles at home. I'm so glad you're here. Welcome back, friends. I'm glad you're here because I think you're going to enjoy today's conversation. I first met Jackie, co-founder of Sheesh Hash Colas, at Camp Canna summer camp for cannabis-loving adults, and that weekend was a blast and I met some really cool people like Jackie. Jackie has extensive experience in the alcohol industry, which I'll allow her to elaborate on, but she took what she learned there and dove into the cannabis beverages space when she found how much cannabis helped alleviate her back pain, which is a story that I think will resonate with many of you. We cover a lot in this conversation and so, without keeping you any longer, please enjoy this conversation with Jackie of Sheesh Hash Colas.
Speaker 1:So if you could just take a minute to introduce yourself to the listeners of Bite Me, Sure Well, my background is primarily in beverage alcohol, so I spent just over 11 years as a senior buyer at the LCBO covering categories like white spirits, ready to drink beer, and then most of my career was spent as the vintages wine buyer. So I got to, you know, travel the world a little bit more at home, actually, and find fantastic wines that you know we would sell at the 600 plus stores in the network.
Speaker 2:And for those who aren't familiar with the LCBO, that's, the Liquor Control Board of Ontario which is also, from what I've recently learned, the largest alcohol buyer in the entire world Is that correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it kind of goes back to back. Sometimes I've heard it's Walmart. But correct we are. We were one of the top two, for sure.
Speaker 2:Right, so you have extensive experience in the alcohol industry? Yeah, but you switched industries. You went from alcohol to cannabis. I did. I'm just wondering what was the defining moment where you're like I'm going to take this leap, because obviously, too, the cannabis industry in Canada is just it's very nascent still Right.
Speaker 1:Right, there's actually two events that took place that kind of collided and got me to make the switch. So the first thing, I got a back injury. I had a back injury and I tried all the typical pharmaceuticals you would expect and a friend told me you've got to try. You know, you've definitely got to try CBD, and I kind of looked at them. You know, I'm going to be honest, I had the stigma going on and I was. I was thinking, I don't know, I tried it, I cannot. But you know, for me and I'm not, I'm not saying it will solve everyone's problems, but for me it certainly helped. Night and day I was able to kind of be pain free. That got me really starting to research cannabis and understand the plant, understand the dynamics of it, what it could offer my life, and really trying to get my head around the stigma that I grew up with and live with for so long.
Speaker 1:So that was happening on one hand, and on the other hand, I resigned from the LCBO and I was doing a lot of consulting work. That was turning into NPD, which is new product development. My passion is innovation, right. So it got to a point, though, that I was doing so much NPD and it was all spritzers and I I'm not kidding, okay, I in one week I would get two to three calls saying you know, we'd like to do a vodka spritzer and honestly, I just it killed my soul in terms of innovation because it was all the same same. If you've ever been to an alcohol store recently and look at the spritzer section, you'll see there's 50 of the same Right and it literally squashed my excitement for the industry over time.
Speaker 1:So you have, on one hand, this new and exciting thing that Canada is on, you know, is kind of leading in terms of national legalization and innovation, and then, on the other side, you know, I know it works because of what happened with my back and then, on the other side, I'm flailing in innovation over in alcohol and it just it made total sense. It just made total sense and I got very excited and I always say, you know, if you want to know what's important to something or to someone, it's important. You almost like plug your ears and watch where they're spending their time and where their actions are going. And I was finding myself two, three, four in the morning up reading about cannabis Right, which was telling, and there's a moment I stepped back and said you know what I'm excited about this. I'm going to do it.
Speaker 1:I put my first resume together in 17 years and I got a job as a director at Hexo At the time it was one of the largest licensed producers in Canada. As director for flour edibles and pre-rolls, I had a lot of learning to do Margaret A lot.
Speaker 2:I bet, I bet. And was there anything in particular that you were reading that really stood out?
Speaker 1:Oh, I was astonished how similar to wine the cannabis industry is. It's shocking, Like, when you think about even just I'm just bringing it down to the most basic thing what's so great about wine is provenance, meaning a sense of place, a sense of people understanding where something comes from. I started reading about the provenance of cannabis strains. Right, Like things like the Hayes brothers from California in the 60s and 70s created, you know, the hay strain and I just I kind of went and thought, okay, there's a sense of people, there's definitely a sense of place. You know that started in California, we know that, you know, land race strain started overseas, and there's a lot of things there that are completely synergistic with what we are excited about, what we love and what we enjoy about wine.
Speaker 2:Right, and you mentioned the Providence. I guess some people might understand that too as terroir as well. Yes, I like to go to Prince Edward County to enjoy the Pinot Noir because it's known for that particular grape. To Prince Edward County to enjoy the Pinot Noir because it's known for that particular grape. Just like in California, if you grow certain cultivars there, it's going to taste and smell and be enjoyed differently than a cultivar that's been grown somewhere else, because of the unique things about that place, which makes it really interesting and definitely helps people understand cannabis if they're more of a wine person or an alcohol drinker.
Speaker 1:I agree Well that's what was happening to me. Every bit of information I was taking in, whether it be at Hexo or in my reading, I was translating like my first language was English or like my first thing it is English but my first language was wine, and I was transitioning into that and I realized, like how much of it made complete sense, even like, yeah and I know a lot of cannabis loyalists don't buy into this as much but I mean Indica sativa hybrid. Um, it does exist. I know every plant has a little bit of both. But when you look at an Indica, you you know when you're having it, you're relaxed. It's kind of heavier, heavier, right that feel. That's like a heavy red wine, like a camera sativa, lighter, kind of during the day, right to me that's like a pinot grigio right during the day. And then obviously hybrid, a rose, right, a blend of both.
Speaker 2:You kind of get the yeah and obviously it's a little more nuanced than that, because indica sativa is sort of like red versus white wine, and obviously we both know that red and white wine, as those two categories are like, incredibly broad and there's a lot of nuance within those categories, and that's similar to cannabis as well. But what have been your biggest challenges with, like, moving from one industry to the next?
Speaker 1:Right. Well, there's a couple I'm going 100 years behind it right of baselines of understanding the customer, understanding the marketing, understanding the legalities, right. And alcohol is just, it's everywhere, right. I was at a concert last night. I saw ads everywhere. So you're going from that industry and I think a lot of us thought, when cannabis was going to legalize, there would be more commonalities, I guess, with alcohol in terms of what would be allowed from communication, education, marketing, things like that.
Speaker 2:And that's not the case.
Speaker 1:So the first challenge has been understanding that, uh, you know, one industry is being served at a church for wine on Sundays and the other one is rehabilitating from a stint in jail and we're just kind of, you know, coming through that as an industry and, uh, it's understanding that it's not the same and we need to handle them differently. So that took some time for me to get my head around and know that with a new industry comes a lot of new challenges, right? So part one is that. Part two, stigma Right, I came from, you know, wine.
Speaker 1:I have, my friends are all into wine. I have wine nights. Right, I go to wine dinners. We own a small part of a winery. I'm very engaged in wine. Still, there is always that place in my heart and I love it, but I mean, it's sometimes I almost they're like. So what are you doing? Doing now, what are you interested in? And and I, I have to take a little second breath you know, okay, I'm in cannabis. I own a cannabis company. I consult, I I still do a lot of alcohol consulting as well, but I and I'm gonna say a solid seven out of ten even in Canada I get the brow, the kind of head tilt going Exactly Right.
Speaker 1:A little bit of that and and I can't help myself but start going into, like I did here, a little bit of a soapbox on the synergies that between the two industries and when I start explaining it, like even you know the beverage I have, we use a local cherry farm for our juice, right to sweeten it, and it's in wine country here in Canada. And I said you know, we use Cherry Lane Farm and they're like what that's in wine company, you know.
Speaker 1:I'm like right, there's quality can happen in cannabis, and you know. So, battling that stigma has been, on one hand, a challenge, another hand a lot of fun. I welcome the opportunity to challenge things like that. And the last thing is, it's very much still a boys club. Cannabis definitely has has that. I'm very fortunate. In my cannabis business I have a wonderful business partner, matt Turkis, who is just an excellent human and an excellent business partner. So I do find, though, there are partnerships, there are suppliers and vendors that you know Matt has to have the first point of contact or the point of contact, or I don't get, you know, a response sometimes. Things like that I would not expect in this day and age, and I certainly didn't see in more mature markets. So I think, over time, we're going to see that balance out, but right now I still do find that a challenge.
Speaker 2:Right. So you are dealing with just the fact that cannabis is like 100 years behind as far as prohibition goes, which does halt a lot of progress in a lot of areas like research and education, all that kind of thing. And then you're wearing the education hat as well Every time somebody asks you about cannabis because they don't understand it the way you do. And then the boys club. I'm sort of surprised to hear that because, like you mentioned, like more mature markets, like perhaps the alcohol industry, why do you think that there's so much more sexism in cannabis than there would be in other industries?
Speaker 1:You know, I don't know the answer to that. I I'm. I've thought about it a little bit and what I guess this would be. I guess at this point, but I think, because the legacy market is um so much legacy market has matured into the legal market. Maybe the legacy market was more dominated, uh, by males at the time and you know there are some great legacy female pioneers and people in the market that are doing great. But I would say, for the most part, if we look at the top you know positions and the top organizations in general there's a few exceptions and we look at you know many of the LPs, we would see that that exists for sure.
Speaker 2:And do you see it changing at all now that you've been a little more involved in the industry?
Speaker 1:You know it has to. I think it has to. Just, you know, the more this industry is looking for, you know, uh, the best talent. Uh, it's not that females are always the best talent, but I'm saying when you look at the ratio, it's going to net out at some point that the best talent should equal, you know, a higher percentage than it is now. At least you know, somewhere in the 50. 50 would be great. And I think, as more and more women succeed in the industry and lean in and help one another, which is key, right, lean in, support and help one another, I think you know there's no way it can't Right Over time. So, you know, I really challenged myself when I recognize this, to really like any, you know, female entrepreneur in the space, anyone looking to do anything in the space or wanting to learn, I do try to lean in, but when it's a female doing it, I try to rise. You know, help them rise above as well, because I know it's a challenge that we all have.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think, just culturally speaking, things are changing right now at an interesting rate and so just across the board, things are starting to change, language is starting to change, but it always seems so slow. Change always seems so slow when you want it to happen. But I love what you're talking about, like leaning in and helping other women, entrepreneurs and women in that space, because I love the idea of collaboration versus competition and I really think that's such a positive way forward too, because it's just the competition has sort of gotten us to a certain place and it can only go so far if we're competing against each other instead of supporting, and I think there's room for all kinds of people in the cannabis industry anyway and it's required, I agree.
Speaker 1:It's a. It's a very uh dynamic group in general, uh, first group, and, to your point, what's happening in society inevitably will you know, trickle into this industry for sure.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think we all just wish it was a little faster, but it's happening, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:How did your experience in the alcohol industry like shape your approach to launching a cannabis?
Speaker 1:beverage. Yeah, yeah, when you look at the beverage. So the beverage line I have right now is called Sheesh Hash, Sodas, ok, and Sheesh is currently in Canada the only beverage using live rosin hash. So when you ask me how it was shaped through alcohol in so many ways, it was through alcohol in so many ways it was. So you know, when I look at, I'm sorry I have to bring it back to wine. You knew it was coming, yeah, but when you look at a wine that I love, I have one in mind. It's a Pinot Noir out of California. What I love is I love, again, the provenance. I love knowing where it's from. I love knowing you know who made it. I love that it's a single varietal, right. So it's a single great making that wine, big flavors and clean. You know what I mean. The process it's good, it's a really good place. I've been there Now when I looked at approaching a beverage.
Speaker 1:You know there's two things there's. You know what I like, which isn't really important, it's what consumers want, right. But I did identify a really big white space. So last August I ran a quick report. There was 211 cannabis beverages in Canada. Every one of them, except maybe one, um, but uh, we're using distillate, right, and when you think of alcohol, distillate would be what we call NGS, like neutral brain spirit, um, or moonshine, like it's just stripped alcohol right.
Speaker 1:And so I look at distillate like that, and what I wanted to do was A have a strong point of difference that people value, which is, you know, quality. You know people value quality and understanding. And, number two, bring all of those things I loved about wine into this space. So what we developed by using rosin there's no solvents, so it's a clean or it's a clean version of THC. Also, a lot of the plant's integrity is kept in a delicate way throughout the process, right? So the terpenes are still there. You know, elements of the plant's integrity is kept in a delicate way throughout the process, right? So the terpenes are still there. You know, elements of the plant are still there and they're not stripped away, right? Um, also, beyond that, when I talked about single varietal, I can tell you exactly where it was grown bc outdoor, you know, um, we just signed a deal, actually, bc Outdoor Organic Cannabis, right? Yeah, we chose the strain to grow, right, we love it. And so you know there's a single origin, single source, single, you know, strain, and it starts with that. So, as long, you know, the cannabis input is top grade. And then, beyond that, because, let's be honest, 80% of the drink is not the cannabis. It's what else is in it.
Speaker 1:We took care. We didn't just add artificial flavors like the other. You know most, almost all. There's a couple exceptions uh, product. So again, you know, our first launch was cherry cola. So there's like cinnamon, there's ginger, there's, there's like these natural ingredients in it. And then, of course, I source the cherry juice from a local farm. We can tell you grew that where that's grown, so it brings that provenance together. So when I say it was influenced by alcohol, it really was, but not the way a lot of other companies did, where they're like okay, it's going to replace beer, so we're going to make a beer with distillate in it. It's about the care, the thought, the people, the place and bringing that together in a beverage.
Speaker 2:I love that because there's just something that's so unique about a beverage that when you're like I know the farm where the cherries were grown or the organic cannabis, like that's just something that's so unique about a beverage that when you're like I know the farm where the cherries were grown or the organic cannabis, that's just to me what I want to consume anyway. And yeah, there's lots of distillate drinks on the market and some of them are good. But when you have that kind of quality ingredient going into a beverage, I think it just makes it taste so much better. And sheesh, hash coals do taste fantastic. I've had them before, I do love them. And sheesh, hash coals do taste fantastic. I've had them before, I do love them, and that's just.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm someone who likes to shop farmer's markets and when I'm buying edibles I like ones where you know the person knows where the cannabis was grown, like all that stuff. And I definitely think there's consumers out there who are looking for that, because distillate will provide a certain experience. Usually it's more to me a flash in the pan kind of high. Certain experience. Usually it's more to me a flash in the pan kind of high, and I just don't think it's the same as obviously it's not because it's been stripped down of all its components and you get that sort of very single dimensional kind of effect from that. So I think that's beautiful and another reason why people should be buying your colas as well.
Speaker 2:And I find, and also, like you said, there's 211 beverages in Canada. I didn't know that. I don't know how many are available in Ontario, where we are, but a lot of the ones that are on the market are probably kind of like the spritzers you were talking about in the alcohol industry. It's like you know, a sparkling water with a splash of distillate and a little hint of flavor, Right. And then they charge you seven bucks for that, for that drink, plus tax, right. And you know there's some advantages. I guess they're sugar free or whatever. But as far as an experience goes, they're kind of not that exciting either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you bring up an amazing point too, one of the hardest things for me to get my head around. I specialize in category management, so down analysis, like really understanding. So you would think, um, that beverages popular outside of cannabis would be what would drive popularity in cannabis, right, like you would think spritzers or natural kombuchas, like things like that. And and they haven't.
Speaker 1:That has not resonated and I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out why, and because I get the question why did you develop a cola like a soda, right it's. You know it has sugar in it. It's not light and sugar, and I wanted something that tasted delicious and express the best that's for you know, to start not saying we won't go there in the future. But realistically, it came down to the fact that products outside of cannabis just are not selling within and I think the reason part of it is that people are only having one or two. Right, you're having one beverage, are only having one or two. Right You're having one beverage, maybe you can consume more sugar. Right, and if you're having one beverage to kind of celebrate throughout the night, or two right, you're more willing to do that, whereas the other ones you might be having five or six. It's called sessionability in the end.
Speaker 1:And I think that that's a part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense Because, yeah, obviously if you're going to drink five of them, then sugar content suddenly does become a little more important, but if you're drinking one or half of one, then yeah, you can say well, you know, I'll not have dessert tonight and I'll have my cola instead, which I think is a way better option. But I'm probably a little bit biased because I love edibles. So, yeah, yeah. So what was the most surprising thing that you've learned about cannabis while you're developing your product or by using it in your own life? Because have you been a longtime cannabis consumer?
Speaker 1:I dabbled in it, but not really. I always hid behind my glass of wine, right, I'd go to a party and everyone knew me as wine, so I just I'd be like, no, I'm good. Right, I've got my run back to the wine cooler uh situation. But what would the biggest surprise me? That's, that's a really good question. Um, I would have to say how quickly I've made a place for it in my life. I would be you. You couldn't convince me right Five years ago. Like I pick a lane, I'm not someone typically. I mean, there is an occasion but where I would say, okay, I'm having cannabis and alcohol, I tend not to mix them. Um, now, now there are times I will have cannabis and have a glass of wine, because I find cannabis heightens my senses. It does so, yeah, so, having my favorite glass of wine, I taste it tastes crazy crazy good, right.
Speaker 1:So there are times I will enjoy a small glass of wine with it, but generally speaking, I pick through the night and I'm surprised how many times my partner and I will go for dinner and we'll take an Uber and we'll be like, Okay, normally I get a bottle of wine, right.
Speaker 1:That's 80 bucks minimum at a restaurant right and instead we're like in the Uber, saying how many gummies do you want? You know, and and we have you know. I have my six milligrams. I am happy throughout that dinner I'm tasting it. It tastes amazing. I wake up great the next morning I sleep well. So my biggest surprise has been how much having an occasion for it in my life has added to my life.
Speaker 1:Saved me money probably saved me calories over the long run the sugar so it's been a place. Nothing will replace wine in my life completely and I still do enjoy it, but I certainly have a place in my life for cannabis now.
Speaker 2:And how easy and you mentioned how easy it was for it certainly have a place in my life for cannabis now.
Speaker 2:And how easy and you mentioned how easy it was for it to become a regular part of your life. Because that bottle of wine that you buy at dinner as well. I love wine too, but I can't like I can't drink the two glasses of wine anymore without waking up with a headache or feeling tired, like the effects are very noticeable as I get older and there used to be a time where I could polish off a bottle of wine and wake up skipping out of bed the next morning. But that is no longer my reality and, of course, I hear more and more about the effects of alcohol on the body as far as health goes and the impacts. And you just don't have that with cannabis, and food and beverage is such an easy way for it to be incorporated into your life. So if you don't want to smoke, there's definitely so many options for it to be used in your life. So I do appreciate what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree. And as far as sheesh the beverage goes, I fancy it up. I have ice, I make it an occasion. Do you know what I mean? Just like in wine, I have wine glasses, I have a sheesh glass.
Speaker 2:Right, and you can make it an experience, just like somebody who's rolling a joint can make a little ritual out of that. But then you can also create that around the beverages that you're drinking or the edibles that you're enjoying or whatever. Just that ritual.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's interesting. One thing I learned in the wine industry is how important it was to people to be able to talk about unique points of their wine, like who you know who made it or some unique story, and I find when I have those little nuggets of information and share it with people about, cannabis during it.
Speaker 2:it's occasion is bang on, you know it's great, yeah, yeah. Now the name of the, the Cola Sheesh. I mean, I had this question prepared and of course Sheesh is short for Hashish, but what was the sort of logic or the story behind the name Sheesh Hash Colas?
Speaker 1:I 100% got to give that to my partner, matt. Okay, we had a list of 20 names. You know, we, we, we, out of the gate, we financed the whole thing Like we did not have agencies, right. This was very much. It still is just Matt and I, right, and we had this list of 20. I have, you know, big hitter, like my best friend was a vice president at LG, some big companies right In marketing, and he has the same circle. So we sent our 20 names. People picked. Uh, there was some ones that were okay, I, I'm trying to remember, like nice like different.
Speaker 1:Like you know nothing I'm proud to say here, actually, you know, you know nothing I'm proud to say here, actually, you know, maybe an agency would have been a good idea. Um, but Matt called and he's like hey, I have one, I think you're gonna love it, sheesh. And I, right away, I cut it down. I'm like no, that's you know, a teenager rolling their eyes at their mom. You know what I mean, right, and I couldn't get my head around it. And Matt, one of his greatest assets is his persistence. So after I killed it, I'm so glad he brought it back to me again. And the name just, it's quick, it's easy to remember. Our tagline is that's good, and that came from people that would drink it and joke. They're like sheesh, that's good, right. And we're like, yeah, that's good, that came from people that would drink it and joke. They're like, sheesh, that's good, right. And we're like, yeah, that's awesome right, yeah not marketing agencies.
Speaker 1:No, um, yeah, and the truth is it just it. You know it was his brainchild and it it works. And soon as you know we got our head around it let me rephrase that soon as I got my head around it, right, we ran and we're like, yeah, this is the thing so what changed for you then?
Speaker 2:because, like, when you said sheesh, and it's like a teenager rolling their eyes at your parent, like I have well, my kids are adults now but they rolled their eyes at me a ton yeah, of course, and, but that never occurred to me. Like I thought sheesh as in hashish, but the sheesh is an oh god, mom, like that.
Speaker 1:Never, that never occurred to me yeah it, and I gotta say it wasn't a favorite in my marketing circle. Like I sent it out, everyone's like no, no, so I, you know, I it. Just it works. When you think about you know what we're creating. Our point of difference I okay, the biggest thing I have learned in my career as a buyer, whether it be when I was with Canadian Tire Unilever here, if you're not going to have a relevant point of difference for a consumer, don't show up right. Our point of difference? There's a few. We care about a lot of elements that are unique, but is that we use really good quality hash right Browsing. So it only makes sense that our name kind of gives a nod to that. So Sheesh became. It's a nice, easy name, it's marketable and, most importantly, it represents our point of difference.
Speaker 2:Right, and I like that you mentioned the tagline. That's good, yeah, difference Right, and I like that you mentioned the tagline. That's good, yeah, it's simple and it came from the people, like you said. So that's, that's nice. I mean, that's good, and naming is so hard to like, like I have to come up with a name for a podcast episode every week and I'm just like, oh, like that's the worst part of doing of the whole process, honestly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you could. I'm just actually looking to say you, you know you could hire an agency, or Matt right, just saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm not prepared to do that, so not for a weekly podcast episode. But yeah, I mean a product name that's going to live with you forever. Like you know, rebranding is not something to be taken lightly. So when you have a product that you're putting out there and you're doing the marketing, you're printing like marketing stuff, it's uh, you gotta really really like, really like the name.
Speaker 1:So one of the things we did and we haven't we've done a little bit of activation with this, but it's something we're going to do more of is we actually bought the rights to a hotline. So we have this one, eight, three, three potline, and what we ask people to do on the potline is call right, 24, seven and tell us about your experience with sheesh or what's going on when you're high and we we are getting some messages.
Speaker 1:So that's already live we, yeah, we live since we started, but we haven't really promoted it. We haven't done anything really too much. Um, we have had some people call in, it's been, it's been fun. But to your point, um, when you're kind of starting out doing your own thing, this was a way to kind of interact and do something a little different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that stuff too, because when people call a line as well, I don't know if you can reply to them or not, but it's always nice to hear somebody's voice when they're interacting, because it just obviously lends a whole lot more context and nuance when you're listening to a message, when it's just versus text, when they're sending some kind of email or text message or whatever the case might be. But and now maybe you've already talked about this a little bit but do you have any funny or unexpected stories from the process of creating Sheesh?
Speaker 1:Oh, funny story or sharing it or.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do have one. Actually, I have a really good friend and we were up at the cottage and she's a wine. She was in the wine industry as well, she currently is. And she goes so, tell me about this project. You're doing, like, what's going on with this thing? And I said well it's, you know, it's a cannabis beverage. And she goes okay, I'm going to have to try it. And I did my spiel. I said you know, here are the ingredients. It's like single strain. I brought her through the whole thing and she goes okay, I'm going to try it. But you know I don't do cannabis. I'm like. So I handed her the can and the can says black cherry hash cola, right.
Speaker 1:So I go into the cottage, I come out, she hasn't opened it. She's looking at it. She goes Jackie, this says hash on it. And I'm like yeah, she goes, is hash even legal? And she was serious. She's like is it even legal? I'm like, of course it is. I said do you know what hash is? She goes yeah, that's like hardcore drugs, jackie, hardcore drugs. And then I like, and it hit me. I'm like okay, right, right, I need to. You know, I need to take the ball back a couple of bounces. So we, um, you know, I explained, and I explained it like ice wine. You know ice wine, because ours is cold extracted. It's extracted when it's frozen, so you only get that the best keef, right, and the rest of the plants discarded. Ice wines, that way too. It's a frozen grape. You only get the little sweet juice and it's discarded, right. Right, I said, and because it's concentrated, it's so sweet, just like hash, it's concentrated, it's so strong.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I had to kind of explain that process and I said hash is cannabis and it was like this epiphany that you know that's so interesting. Yeah, and it's just really premium. Best of the best part. That is right. She is right yeah it was like the complete eye opening for both of us, me understanding, wow, that's part of something I need to, you know, uh, communicate. And from her end, um well, she learned and did she enjoy it?
Speaker 2:that's the real question yeah yeah, a new convert.
Speaker 2:Perhaps yeah, a little bit yeah, there's a time, for sure, yeah and I just found that interesting too, because I personally didn't realize that ice wine and I've drank a few ice wines but I didn't realize that was processed. Maybe I knew, but the frozen grapes then you discard it like that sounds exactly the the process of extracting the rosin like you were talking about. Yeah, so linking that known to the unknown for people who are well more versed in the wine, again, that's another beautiful example of helping them to understand that it's not hardcore drugs. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's so funny. Now, looking ahead, I mean you obviously have a pulse on both the wine, like the alcohol, and the cannabis beverage industry. Do you see any interesting trends on the horizon for cannabis beverage?
Speaker 1:I you know the hardest thing. The best way to predict is through historic baseline, and we don't have that in cannabis, right? Yes, so what you start leaning to is you look at other markets or look at you know outside of cannabis what's happening. So I do see cannabis beverages is increasing in market share. It's still a small base.
Speaker 1:Well, I do see that people are using cannabis beverages sometimes as a replacement in the same occasions that they would do alcohol. So I suspect we'll see more and more of that as stigma reduces. We also know, right, like during dry January, there's a large percent. I read it and I can't. I don't want to spit out the wrong percent, but I think it was like somewhere in the 70 percentage of people. Still, during dry January, they transition from alcohol to cannabis. That's not part of their dry program. Oh really, yeah, so there's quite a bit of trial that happens in January. So I do expect, as people open their mind a little bit, stigma reduces that beverages, as well as gummies, which are already doing it, will start replacing those occasions, will become more and more popular and as they become more en masse, we're going to see the same kind of beverages start selling. Well, that are in alcohol or non-controlled substance, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Right, and the people who are doing a dry January but then still continuing to use like a cannabis beverage instead are those people who would they be like non-traditional cannabis users, Like they don't typically consume cannabis or it is already part of their current, it sounds like.
Speaker 1:I read an article in the Hamlet the Hamilton spectator and it it did indicate. It didn't give me that indication of either one, but my assumption on that would be a bit of both To be honest there's, you know, people that are already consuming, or just like hey, no alcohol this month, but I'm continuing, right.
Speaker 2:And then there's those people that are okay no alcohol, but hey, this might be a better, healthier option, might make the month easier and we're going completely dry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, that's that's pretty interesting. And then also, you mentioned about like the market share, because I, as I understand it, it can't. Like you said. Cannabis beverage is still a pretty small market share as far as like all the cannabis products available. So why did you go for a beverage versus like an edible? Cause edibles are a larger market share than beverages.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, beverages number one are my passion. Right, I guess that's the obvious answer. But number two, for me it's enjoy like um. It's a nice long enjoyment, right, like I pour, I pour sheesh and I poured over it, like I said, ice glass garnish, like it is. It's an experience beyond just. You know, don't get me wrong, I enjoy gummies, I enjoy um, brownies, all of those things, but but it's, it's quickly consumed.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and I, I, I wanted something that gives kind of an enjoyable experience, something I'm used to, that I can integrate easy in my life. It's not an odd moment, um, and that made just a lot of sense to me, and in fact it's not that I'm not like sheesh, we'll explore. Uh, edibles, there's no doubt.
Speaker 2:Um but we wanted to come out, first and foremost, with what we know best and yeah yeah, and that makes sense too, because, like you said, if you're popping a gummy like that's like a 30 second you know thing like you pop it in your mouth, you chew it up and then that's the end of it, whereas, like you said, you have your, your sheesh glass and you pour it over ice and you make like that little ritual, like you're making a cocktail or something or pouring a nice glass of wine and savoring it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, even you know we have the cherry, but we have a tangerine dream out as well, and I remember like we had 18 different tangerine purees I brought in before I picked the right one. Oh wow, they're from california, right? I'm like this is the one. So when I'm sipping it I know that I'm going oh, I could taste that puree you know what I mean. Like it's I don't know. I like making it a special thing.
Speaker 2:So, with all your experience in the wine industry, are you sommelier Like? You must have quite a palate to be able to like 18 different tangerines and be like. Notice the difference between them all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do. I developed quite a palette, similar to kind of coming into cannabis. When I went into buying wine, I didn't have a background in it. My background was in category management, analysis, right, making decisions based on analysis. So I took the business part and I was really fortunate enough to have a team, some working with me and for me, master of wines, you know sommelier some of the best in the industry. So I learned a ton from them, but also from the process.
Speaker 1:Like you know, we would get thousands of submissions to buy 40 products. So we would have to taste hundreds of those like 100, typically in a tasting room. And you're you when you know what to look for. Yes, your palate does develop that way. So I'm always, you know, even when I'm approaching pre roll which I don't do inhalation products a lot at all, all, but when I do I I look at it just like a wine. I'm, I'm smelling it for the aroma, you know. I'm looking at the quality of the bud, which is like the color, you know, I'm I'm pulling very gently, trying to taste the, the whole experience, and then feel the feels. Uh right, you know. So it's very similar. You know, my teeth aren't as red.
Speaker 2:There's nothing that says you've been drinking red wine like those red wine teeth that you just can't avoid. But you know that's just part of the whole thing about drinking red wine. So yeah, now switching gears just a little bit. What would surprise people about you Now?
Speaker 1:switching gears just a little bit. What would surprise people about you? Oh boy, that's a. That's a tough question, margaret.
Speaker 2:I love this question because the answers are often as surprising as the question itself.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, I would have to say, uh, a lot of people are shocked when they get to know me um that I was in the military.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is surprising.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. Yeah, I was in the infantry reserve when I was young.
Speaker 2:So what does that mean exactly? Did you serve the? Were you in a war?
Speaker 1:No, no, I um, I joined the reserves uh, reserves in grade 12. Long story I was on our student council and a gentleman came in to the school and was recruiting for this like summer program to kind of expedite things as an infantry person. And I went to kind of get everybody excited and try to bring people to this meeting. And I guess, through that process you know, I signed up, other people signed up and next thing, you know, I got a call saying hey, you've made this program. And I was like what?
Speaker 2:Did you sign up for anything? I?
Speaker 1:know it was this moment. I did testing and anyway I did it as a personal challenge for a couple years. Then, when I went to university, I said I couldn't continue. I was focused elsewhere. That wasn't a future. Yeah people, I'm quite the marksman who knew.
Speaker 2:That is very surprising. Yeah, you have infantry training. That's impressive.
Speaker 1:That's right it does shock some people that have handled live grenades. But, yeah, that's a bit of a surprise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's a great answer, so I'm glad I asked. And is there anything coming up that you're excited about, or anything coming up with you, with Sheesh Hashkulas, that you're excited about?
Speaker 1:I wake up excited every day, since I'm in this industry I got.
Speaker 1:I have two things really exciting. So one I have a book that's coming out, I think pre-sale starting this fall, and it's called chill the wine lovers introduction to cannabis. So it's where I bring a lot of the history and synergies between cannabis and wine together just to educate people, reduce stigma and, like I said, if people know more and educate themselves, then they can decide and be empowered on if there's a place in their life for them. So that's one thing that's got me pretty excited. The other thing, of course, is sheesh, we have new products coming out and there's a new innovation I'm working on behind the scenes that I'm hoping comes out next summer. Um, that, I think, is going to be next level exciting.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that does sound exciting on both fronts, because I mean, obviously, new products coming out that, for those who are listening and can't see your face as you're talking, um, you have quite the smile on your face talking about that, so I would be excited. And next summer is a long time to wait, but a book coming out too. You said Chill, the Wine Lover's Guide Intro to Cannabis. Correct, and you'll have to let me know when the preorder is available, because I would definitely be interested in that as a wine lover myself.
Speaker 2:But I just think that that's really going to obviously speak to people who are really into wine but are curious about cannabis too 100% and it talks about the stigma I had and maybe they can relate to going into it right, right and the stigma that a lot of us had because, especially if you're of a certain age, of a certain vintage, if you will, then you know, like DARE programs and I remember the assemblies at school and if you smoke cannabis you're going to be shooting up heroin within a month, like like all that stuff that's obviously untrue and some of that stuff really hangs on and it's hard to sort of shake that, that feeling when you're indoctrinated with that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:So yeah, 100%, it's exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's fantastic. Well, jackie, I just want to say thank you for spending your time with me today. This has been a really interesting conversation. And where can people find you online?
Speaker 1:I'm more of a LinkedIn girl.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, linkedin. And I know you have Sheesh Hashkolas on Instagram. Yeah, for sure. I don't know if it's on Facebook or not, but I tend to be more on Instagram, so I'll link to those in the show notes. And, yeah, I just want to say thank you for sharing your time with me today.
Speaker 1:Margaret, thanks for inviting me. I really appreciate it and it's always good talking to you.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you, Friends. As always, you'll find the links and mentions in the show notes for this episode on bitemepodcastcom. If you have a wine lover in your life, consider sharing this episode with them and keep an eye out for Jackie's book upcoming. I'll share it with you once it's out, because having these conversations with drinkers about how cannabis can improve their own lives in a way that uses language that's familiar to them is so powerful. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Send your takeaways via fan mail, a hotline or email and until next time, friends. I'm your host, Margaret, and stay high.
