Bite Me The Show About Edibles
Create your own tasty, healthy cannabis edibles and take control of your high life! Bite Me is a weekly show that helps home cooks make fun, safe and effective cannabis edibles. Listen as host Margaret walks you through an marijuana infused recipe that she has tested in her home kitchen or interviews with expert guests. New episodes every Thursday.
Bite Me The Show About Edibles
Breaking Barriers with Cherry Blossom Belle
Ever wondered how a culinary background could shape someone into a top hash maker? Join me in this intriguing chat with Cherry Blossom Belle, the master hash maker and lead at Heritage Hash Co in California, as she shares her extraordinary journey. From growing up in a Catholic military household in Japan to becoming an apprentice under the legendary Frenchy Cannoli, Belle's story is a testament to the power of resilience and passion. Discover how her unique experiences and cultural influences from Japan, including values like patience, honesty, and respect, have profoundly impacted her meticulous approach to cannabis craftsmanship.
Belle takes us on a fascinating ride through her diverse culinary and cultural experiences, detailing how these elements have honed her skills in hash-making. We explore her initial perceptions of cannabis, shaped by the strict legal environment in Japan, and her eventual exposure to high-quality cannabis from Thailand. Belle also highlights the parallels between hash-making and Japanese tea ceremonies, emphasizing the importance of ritual and disciplined practice. This episode is a rich blend of personal anecdotes and professional insights, offering a deep dive into the meticulous art of cannabis craftsmanship.
The conversation wouldn’t be complete without addressing the gender dynamics within the cannabis industry. Belle candidly discusses the challenges and support systems she encountered as a woman in a male-dominated field. Her philosophy of fostering collaboration over competition shines through, underscoring the importance of mutual respect and effective feedback among colleagues. We also touch on upcoming events and workshops Belle is excited about, offering listeners various opportunities to connect and learn. Don’t miss this inspiring episode packed with wisdom and practical advice from one of the industry's leading figures.
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Welcome back, friends. You're listening to episode 258, where I sit down with Cherry Blossom Bell. Welcome to the Faces of Cannabis interview series, where we take a break from talking about edibles and focus on the people behind the plant. Whether it's fellow podcasters, bud tenders, gangiers, advocates, cultivators, cannabis lovers, all have their stories to share and I want to share them with you. If you're unfamiliar with Cherry Blossom Bell, you won't be after this conversation.
Speaker 1:She was an apprentice of Frenchie Cannoli, a master hash maker, and not only has she perfected the art of making hash, she is the lead hash maker at Heritage Hash Co in California. But she's so much more than a hash maker. She's a connoisseur, an educator, a martial artist. Belle has seen much in her days in the cannabis industry. We cover a lot in this episode, including how she first met Frenchie, her experience living abroad, her culinary background that translates directly to hash making how she's handled being a woman in a male-dominated industry and how she fosters collaboration instead of competition. Without further ado, please enjoy this conversation. It looks like we're already recording and it didn't count down for me, but that's okay. Hello everyone, listeners of Bite Me, the show about edibles, I'm really excited to be joined today by Belle Cherry Blossom Belle, as she's known as online and I was just hoping you could start out by telling us a little bit about yourself, belle, and saying hello to everyone listening through ByteMe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hi everyone. Yeah, so my name is Cherry Blossom Belle, and where do I even begin? So you know, I grew up overseas. I came to the United States when I was 20 years older. I should say I came back. I was born here in the United States but I'm a military kid, so I left when I was 20 years old. Or I should say I came back. I was born here in the United States but I'm a military kid, so I left when I was really young and I came back when I was 20 years old.
Speaker 2:But my brother at the time, leo, he was already up in Mendocino, he had just got out of the military, messed him up a little bit so he found solace. You know he went to seek, you know he went to seek a little peace with, you know, growing cannabis up here in Mendocino. And then I, actually he invited me to a high times cup. I didn't hear from him, or see, from no one heard anything. He was just gone. He was gone in the mountains. And uh, he came down one time and invited, invited me and my oldest brother to come see him at the high times cup. He had just won some award and that award was actually the Emerald cup. He won the breeder, the breeder cup for um, his black lime reserve at the time, and that's actually where he met Frenchie and Frenchie became his official hash maker and that's where and that high times cup is where I met Frenchie, because him and Frenchie were at had a booth at that high times cup, the aficionado booth. And you know, here I am coming from a country where you pretty much get hung for cannabis and I was a big fan of cannabis. So, of course, coming to this High Times Cup was, like you know, unheard of. You know, this is something that you only dream of in a country that I come from, in a country that I come from.
Speaker 2:And so, walking into this high times cup, people were throwing joints and like there were so many free. It was the days of all the free samples, ever, always just so many free samples and dabs and hash and bong rips. People had bongs on the table so you can smoke their flower. And I went to this was during like that heady culture time, you know, like a lot of heady glass, a lot of the goo and like the goo art and like that, that, that period, and uh, but Leo, when I came up to his booth.
Speaker 2:He had, he had presented it like fine wine or like cannabis, you know, like fine wine or cigars. He had his menus, he had a jewelry case, he had an Oriental carpet and two leather chairs. It was like so above his, so beyond his time, and there was Frenchie smoking people out with his three hole bowl, looking in his silk shirt, just looking like fantastic. And that's where I got my first hit of hash and, um, you know, long story short, I ended up joining my brother because you know, like I, you can't walk away from a. This guy had 20 foot by eight foot plants like or six feet. I would say they're about six feet by like, about almost 20 feet, I would say like maybe 17 feet.
Speaker 1:It's a grower's dream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I was like, oh, I'm here, I'm ready. So I became a farm hand and that's where Frenchie offered me to be his apprentice, because he had this beautiful vision of the hash being made by the family. You know, with the genetics bred by the family, grown by the family, processed by the family still rings true to this day for ultimate quality. People who can have the ability to achieve that, it's quite a feat. So Frenchie wasn't wrong. So, yeah, I moved in with him and his wife and we produced hash on the market and under the Frenchy Cannoli brand officially. So I produced the hash for the Frenchy Cannoli brand with Frenchy alongside him, and then, present day, now, I'm the lead hash maker and director of manufacturing at Heritage Hashco and director of manufacturing at Heritage Hashco. And we are a micro business, so we are a retail location, but we're also the world's first public cannabis hashery, so you can see the hash being made behind our window from our retail area. So we'll do the wave and everything. Just hey, there.
Speaker 2:That's pretty awesome yeah yeah, we're also open consumption too. So for anyone coming up to the redwoods or a you know we're two hours north of san francisco and anyone coming to the emerald triangle, we're basically in the gateway of the emerald triangle and we have the nicest bathrooms on the 101.
Speaker 1:So that's that's probably a huge draw, yeah all those fantastic have a nice bathroom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean that's.
Speaker 1:That's important, that's a yeah. It sounds like it was all happenstance, like just the way that you and your brother and frenchie all came together like this sounds like it was totally meant to be. And you mentioned his, your brother's display at this emerald cup and how ahead of his time he was, because I know French. You really tried to instill a lot of that. I took the Ganger program and they're really about sort of elevating the whole experience and appreciating fine cannabis and comparing it to wine and cigar industry. So that's really cool that that all worked out that way. And you mentioned that you're a military kid, so you must have moved around quite a bit. I understand that you lived in Japan for 10 years. I did. Yeah, how did that shape your perspective of cannabis? Because I imagine that was one of the places where cannabis was very illegal.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, I mean um. So I would say, like cannabis in Japan and where I lived, like most of the countries that I lived, was, uh, just highly illegal. Um, like you really okay, first of all, okay, so you really had to know somebody in Japan, you know, and, and the other countries I live to you know, you really had to be well connected in order to find any kind of cause. It's like serious contraband and even as a kid, you know, I grew up kind of in a Catholic military military household in Japan. On top of it, it's super, super right there yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean, it's considered super contraband and you really have to know somebody. Um and um. Also, I was a kid, okay, so I'm you know by the time. I was a kid, okay, so I'm you know. By the time I was even slightly curious. I was probably 13 years old, maybe getting into like 13, 14, 15, somewhere around there. I know that that's when, like, my friends were a little curious about it too, but I was still in Japan and, like it is so expensive, we just we don't have that kind of money as a kid. You don't have that. You barely have money to buy snacks at the store. We're not buying weed, we're not. We're definitely not buying weed, but you know it did shape my little, did I know how?
Speaker 2:Japan, though, you know, even though you know I actually I was in Southeast Asia when I started smoking cannabis even more illegal to hang you there, wow. So I and at that point I was pretty okay I was connected to somebody who got some really good stuff from Thailand and it was so good. It was so good, some of the best stuff. Till this day I don't remember laughing, as I've never laughed as much and ate so much. I could eat a table of food. But I little did. I know, you know, even though it was like super contraband in Japan, that I would be like like the cultural nuances I picked up had a lot to do with how my family and I approached, like craft cannabis, like along with Frenchie, because, I told you, frenchie lived in Japan as well. Frenchie lived in Japan at the same time I lived in Japan. So Frenchie and Kimberly, his wife, both lived. They lived in Tokyo. I lived in Yokohama. I was a little little kid At the time.
Speaker 2:Frenchie was a fashion designer. He designed stingray handbags and I'm convinced my mom might have met him because my mom's friend bought one of his bags. I remember seeing the stingray bag. They were all crazy about you know, like. And Frenchie had this tech where he dyed the stingray rather than painted the stingray. You can't paint it, it'll chip, you have to dye stingray skin. So you know he had used the leather from Cartier watches like beautiful, beautiful. I still have one of his belts he gave me. But I seen his ad in a magazine. I was riding the train and my mom brought a magazine home and there was a picture of Frenchie and he was holding a camera like to his face and smiling, and as a kid you don't see a lot of Caucasian people in advertisements. And I rode that train all the time. It was on the JR line, it was a little advertisement. I asked him later in life I was like, did you have an advertisement on the JR line? And he was like I did.
Speaker 2:I saw you with your camera because he showed me that picture. So, so funny. But we both picked up. You know this, this whole thing of how you know, how they approach things, the cleanliness you know cleanliness is something you grow up knowing and you just have. It's really hard to teach. You can teach actions of cleanliness but it's hard to teach the mentality of cleanliness, of cleanliness, but it's hard to teach the mentality of cleanliness. So that's kind of one thing Frenchie and I both really saw eye to eye and shaped. Our craft was cleanliness, organization. You know the mentality of organization and the men, all these mentalities, patience. You know you never see. Rarely do you see, maybe nowadays more, but rarely did you ever see like a, a Japanese person, just honkins at someone on the road, just move, get out of the way.
Speaker 2:You know, rarely they're so polite and patient and they'll wait days for you. And you know honesty. You know I've left my bag on the train in Japan. There were still about 12 stops and they don't check the train until the 12th. You know the last stop and my bag was still on the seat, had all all my money, my, my IDs, my passport, my camera.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Expensive camera. No one touched it because that's just how they are. They're just like not their things, they're not going to have that karma come on them. So that whole thing of honest practice, being honest and having honor, honor in your work and being respectful to people, those are some of the really like cornerstones of the Japanese or Asian culture in general, and I think that's why a lot of the martial arts I'm a martial artist, so it's why a lot of martial arts stem from that area it's that same kind of like patient. You know, cleanliness, organization, patience, honesty, honor, respect.
Speaker 1:So you were able to bring all of that into your work in the cannabis scene as well, cause I, I guess they also have a lot of ritual I think of, like tea ceremonies, because I understand some of those can be incredibly complicated and beautiful, and then that would lend itself well to to the ritual of enjoying cannabis or your hash or whatever the case might be. But yeah, I also understand, speaking of tea ceremonies, this is, you know, I'm trying to make a connection here, but you also have a culinary background and I I think it was Kimberly that told me that Frenchie had one as well, or just that even in French culture they seem to have a better understanding of palate from a younger age. But can you talk about your culinary background and how this influences your work?
Speaker 2:not together. You know different, different points. You know he worked. He worked uh kind of in the Berkeley area at a restaurant for a while and uh, berkeley, california, and I worked in Southeast Asia in a restaurant, um, and it was like a kind of we did local dishes, like local Southeast Asian dishes, but we were close to the military base so we had to do American like English dishes as well, so like fish and chips and burgers and grilled cheese and like, but also like we had to do wok stuff, so we had to do fried rice, we had to do Mee Goreng, we had to do a bunch of like you know, asian stir fry.
Speaker 2:But that culinary like were revived was Frenchie. When, when he asked me to be his apprentice, or asked if I was interested to be his apprentice, he asked me when I was on my brother's farm, um, the first thing he asked me was to come to his workshop. So I went to his workshop in San Francisco, started just where everyone else normally starts, like I always tell people that when they come to my class I started right where they were. I came to his workshop and I saw how he approached his craft, a lot like how a chef in a Michelin rated restaurant approaches their craft Again with the cleanliness, cleaning as you go, respect for your tools, respect for your ingredients. You know, frenchie had a deep understanding of his technique, his timing and his ingredients and I think I mentioned this when you were at the class. But there's Anthony Bourdain, you know, world renowned food critic. He commented on a master sushi chef in Japan named Jito, and he has a documentary called Jido dreams of sushi.
Speaker 1:It's a great documentary. Yeah, okay, so you're familiar with it.
Speaker 2:Anthony Bourdain commented on Jido sushi and said what separates a $30 plate of sushi from a $300 plate of sushi is only three things. It's technique, timing and ingredients. And it's it translates exactly the same into hash making. It's your, your technique and your timing and your ingredients. And it's it translates exactly the same into hash making. It's your, your technique and your timing and your ingredients. And Frenchie, just like a chef, had a deep appreciation and respect for all three things. Um, and we really vibed on that and, uh, when, when I started apprenticing with him, the way we kind of worked was very like a, very much like a kitchen, Like I can see that he was ready for the next thing. He didn't need to verbalize, like we just know what was going on in the kitchen, so it was great. Like we could work without talking.
Speaker 2:I mean we would talk about other things we talk about life, you know, just all kinds of life stuff but or funny stuff or sports or something you know. But we wouldn't be talking about the process because we we had that symbiosis of like a culinary. We really got it, we understood it, we ran it like a kitchen.
Speaker 1:Right. I love that analogy too, because it makes it really approachable for people as well when they're starting to learn the craft themselves, and because those elements that you mentioned are, you know, when you think of cleaning as you go and cleanliness and these types of things. These are things that you can easily add to your own process without having to buy a new equipment or absolutely. I mean, maybe changing your starting plant material might make a difference, but if you don't have the top shelf stuff, you can still make a great product with these other things and you don't necessarily need a bigger machine or all these other other other things that aren't necessarily going to actually help in the end product.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, you can bake a pie at home, you can bake a pie in a commercial setting. Yeah, yeah, it's the same thing you can make hash at home, or you can make it in a commercial setting too.
Speaker 1:It's just like food you can still have a beautiful product at the end, regardless of where you're working from, with these same sort of techniques and rituals that you know at the end of the day, you're just processing an agricultural product, and that's what I usually.
Speaker 2:That's like my actual legal title. If you really want to get technical, I'm an agricultural processing consultant I'm a service. I don't actually grow the material myself, so I provide the service of processing somebody's material for them, whether it be my own company or the farmer. But it's the same thing if you're processing your tomatoes from your garden and you're making salsa or tomato sauce, you're still doing it at home, but you're still processing an agricultural product it's the same thing.
Speaker 2:If you look at it in that that way, it's like oh, you know, I'm just simply separating the heads from the plant matter. It's just like cooking tomato sauce from your garden yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you learned your craft through Frenchie and I mean, what better teacher there was? I don't know, I don't think there is one, but I really get the sense that Frenchie wanted to empower people and be really inclusive with his knowledge, because you don't have to attend a workshop to learn everything. You can just go on YouTube and look it up, in your preferred language, probably. What do you think gave Frenchie such a progressive mindset, and how do you find yourself continuing that legacy in your work now?
Speaker 2:So I think what gave Frenchie a progressive mindset, unfortunately, to start, was he had a hard childhood and in the nature of and I'm not, I am not saying anything towards anybody who has any religious affiliation, I'm just stating like Frenchie's experience as a child, he went to Catholic school where they were far from nurturing let's just say they were far from nurturing and believed heavily in corporal punishment, right, and that's very French, unfortunately, and this is a light example of the trauma this, this man went through. But you know the, the, the common slapping the kids on the hands with the ruler on. You know they put their hands on the desk and slap it with the stick or the ruler. You know this corporal punishment like that, um, really pushed. You know they think they're trying to scare them into a belief, belief, but push actually did the quite the opposite and pushed this man far, far, far, far away, so far, far, into the mountains of nepal. That's how far that man went. He left, he went the hippie route. He just and that that's the whole thing is, he just went diving. He became, he went, he Med. Club Med is a big club and a resort in the Mediterranean. So he worked at Club Med for a while and then he raved on the beaches of Goa.
Speaker 2:And when you live that life and you travel through countries like that, you really realize like you really see the world, you really understand like people and happiness and like like being humble and humility and really like accepting everybody. You really have to, especially if you're traveling in their country, traveled through India up into Nepal, he traveled some places in the Middle East and that those are no areas where anyone should ever kind of like. You have to be loving and accepting of the people who are feeding you and helping you get from point A to point B. That's all Frenchy had was the people who got him to point A to point B on his journey, which were the locals, and you learn to love them and love their life and who they are and you see that in your world.
Speaker 2:So Frenchie never liked things that only certain classes of people or only certain types of people can participate in and a lot is like again, maybe that stems from the Catholic church, a little bit of like you have to be Catholic to participate in this kind of thing, but what parish do you come from, kind of thing. Or if you don't come from a parish, it's like not Catholic, it's like, oh God, so intense, but like. So I think it stems from that a little bit, but he never liked things that excluded people. He wanted everybody to be included and he understood, um, the basic, like this plant belongs to everyone. It's a plant, everyone is entitled to knowledge and and it's kind of like how we evolve as humans, we, in order for us to evolve like our, our consciousness, and just to evolve like our data and knowledge on this it has to be talked about and shared.
Speaker 2:So like it's very simple, you know, but it's weird. It's interesting how people can't, you know, comprehend something as simple, like a really simple thing. But I think, you know, traveling and those worldly experiences, really open Frenchies kind of like third eye to that, so to speak.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, and I really love that because it's refreshing. I feel like in a world where I mean the world that we're more familiar with right now tends to be a little more competitive and capitalist. So it's sort of you gatekeep information so you can make money from it.
Speaker 1:And that's a very different approach, and that's why I think Frenchie has such a fan base of people who really appreciated the way he did things, because it's so different, even though everything you're saying makes a lot of sense. It is a plant that should be shared by all the people, so why gatekeep that information? But you know, when we lived in a capitalist world, everyone was trying to make a buck, I guess, so it's pretty easy to fall into that trap, which is again why it's so refreshing. But so you were working with Frenchie, hosting workshops, and you've now host these workshops yourself with Kimberly, hosting workshops, and you've now host these workshops yourself with Kimberly. And have you found, like, were there any challenges that you had to confront while working?
Speaker 2:in this cannabis industry. Yeah, you know, okay. So with with the workshops, the only thing I can think of is just like the legal status between like varies between state to state or country to country. When it came to the workshops, I know that Frenchie and Kim are very much, for, as rebellious as they are, as their spirits are, I think they're very aware of the repercussions too. Even giving information in the wrong countries can get you arrested. Handing out a pamphlet in the wrong country can get you arrested in jail time. They're very worldly people. They have such a deep awareness of the legal area, the legal area, like the legality and like the repercussions. So that's that limits where we can go.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, we only can really access places that that we're not going to get super arrested for for for showing people, you know, just doing a little demo. So that's just been the biggest challenge altogether with with getting knowledge out. There is the accessibility Um and uh, but you know, and traveling're not even. That's not even really a challenge because we're always willing to do what it takes. It's really just the legality of preventing us from going certain places. We wish we could access more places. I think that's the biggest challenge.
Speaker 2:But in the industry in general, like outside of the workshops. You know, when you're participating in this industry, we, especially here in the United States, we we don't have banking, or we didn't have banking for a long time Like we just got banking in California and um and so that means no loans. You know that means people have to find private investors and unfortunately, my story and Frenchie's story and a lot of other people's story in this industry is you know, a lot of relationships not don't end up working out because of needing to seek private investors or finance issues, but a lot of relationships don't work out due to creative attachments or personal agendas which neither really have anything to do with the plant itself.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, that's more business, I guess.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, I guess you know breeders will get it. The creative attachment does come to the plant, sometimes with certain things. But you know, I think that's the biggest challenge for like being in the cannabis industry is not getting the support from the government, not getting the support, you know. But you know nobody wants to like you until until they like you, until you're convenient for them.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and then you have to put in all that hard work and then maybe they'll consider it, cause it's a. It's remarkable to me that I mean, how long has California been legal for recreational, recreationally, and they're? You're just getting like banking now. That's pretty crazy yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like they're tolerating us, like we're still the delinquent bad children. But they're tolerating us because we make money. But they're like, because you're bad, bad, we're gonna make you pay us even more right, because they're also, like california's, big in the wine industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah and that seems to be okay, but yeah, there's a lot of lobbying.
Speaker 2:there's a lot of yeah, like I said, there's a lot of personal agendas, there's a lot of lobbying and unfortunately unfortunately, california's government isn't around the best A lot of people's governments everyone has. I'm preaching to the choir. There's a lot of people out there who don't agree with their leadership, but it comes down to mismanagement of funds too mismanagement of my taxes, I think. In my neighborhood I just saw a whole new fleet of police cars. I was livid.
Speaker 2:I was livid, I was like you guys just got new cars like five years ago, and those aren't like the base price for those Fords. You know the base price for that type of Ford is $75,000. They got a fleet of maybe six to 10 of those cars in the two towns, these nice fancy black and blue police cars. I was like that's my money.
Speaker 2:Right, I was like that All my money goes to that. I was like you don't need a new police car dude, what we need is like home. What we need is wood shop and auto shop yeah, and like skills yeah.
Speaker 1:Basic skills and stuff. Yeah, yeah, skills, yeah, basic skills and stuff. Yeah yeah, it's always interesting to see how politicians decide to manage the money. Because it's, yeah, whole fleet of new cars. It's, in my mind, hard to justify that, that case, but they must have managed to do something.
Speaker 2:But the personal agenda is too yeah, you need a new armed squad car in mendocino. Dude, we're in the Redwoods.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, that's an even better point In Mendocino, it's Oakland baby.
Speaker 2:Okay, oakland is a little scary sometimes, not going to lie, you know Oakland is good, but you know, mendocino, you don't need a whole new fleet of squad cars.
Speaker 2:Come on now. But we still have problems in our school. That's where the issue is is like I, if you told me the taxes that I were paying for going to the schools, I'd question it. I wouldn't look twice, I'd be like oh, that's dope, okay, cool, like fine, like it's going to something I truly believe in. I'm not mad that. You know almost $400 every check gets taken out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nobody really likes that, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:No, and to know that it's going to their squad cars. Yeah, I was like oh, that like it really like started a fire in me. I was like man, I really gotta like start seeing like how we can really make a change here, because that's really really not okay with that now I'm curious too, because you have been working like in the hash industry for quite some time.
Speaker 1:You've've been doing the workshops, you've been traveling. Have you had to overcome any challenges when it comes to dealing with the fact that cannabis is still a pretty male dominated industry?
Speaker 2:you know I would be lying if I I'd be lying if I didn't say people would assume like I was frenchie's uh assistant or his secretary, um, but he would stand up for me each time and correct them and tell him, tell them like straight up, like oh, she's not my assistant, she's my apprentice, um, and so you know, I've come to find that there can be actually sexism, sexism on both sides.
Speaker 2:I've have awareness around that. Um, I think, statistically, us women unfortunately get kind of the heavier end of that. But it's not, you know, I think guys have a really bad. I think us ladies have to actually give a little bit more love to the guys in the cannabis industry, believe it or not, because, like there are a lot more there's. I've noticed a lot more recognition and love and respect to women who are killing it from men in the industry, more so, more and more. You know, you know, and so I think that that's that's, you know it's also. They might feel a little of that sexism to surround myself with as well are in this in this world.
Speaker 2:You know, it's there, they're, they're, they're loving, they're kind, they're respectful. Example In French she was so loving, kind, respectful, honest. Of course, my partner, Cody, my lab, my friend, my really good friend, richard, who runs the lab with me, one of the most respectful human beings ever. So I surround myself with really good, respectful people. But then it gets complicated, because sometimes women don't set it up easy for success, because sometimes there's this expectation that that we put on ourselves of like we have to be in a bikini or damn near naked, blowing smoke at the camera, in order to find validation, love, respect, respect, more so, and it's a fine line, because there's there's there's self-expression which like who's the judge? Like if that makes someone feel good and that's how they want to express themselves. I'm not wanting to be like you can't express yourself, but that's like really. But then it sets kind of like.
Speaker 2:I know, I think, without knowing or being super conscious of it, these girls also set a false expectation, for, especially if they're super popular, they set a false expectation of what us women kind of have to be, amount to, and sometimes men kind of might feel like, oh, like that's kind of a woman they should probably aim to have at the same time, and it's like so there's a lot of kind of like complications with that, um, but who's to say where women, um, you know, we, we like, we want to self-express ourselves and we want to like, live it in the moment and be the beautiful queens that we are. You know, yes, live that moment, girl. So sometimes I'm like, yeah, get it, live it. But at the same time, you know, um, I, I, I just want to encourage women to, because we set ourselves up for that sexism too.
Speaker 2:It's you know if, if you want to put yourself out like that, it's kind of like well, of course you know a certain type of reaction or an intention is going to come, and if you weren't liking that attention, it's like, well, maybe that's not the kind of attention you should put to it. But you know I, but you know there's like Mila, you know there's other women expressing themselves, cause, like I've noticed like a change in the attitude over time in the cannabis industry, like it's I can argue that it's a lot easier to be in a woman in the cannabis industry than it is to be in the sales world, the business world. Wolf of Wall Street kind of life, right, sales quotas, coming back to the office, having to do sales quotas I've lived that life before and like you get hazed if you didn't get like like certain sales quota, you know, like that Wolf of Wall Street thing. That's real, that's super competitive.
Speaker 1:That sounds really competitive yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they they don't. The men in the business world are not respectful to women like that. Rarely you know, or contracting, rarely do you see a woman in that contract, labor, intensive work, contracting world. So when a woman is in that position, it's it's, it's, it's hard and it's like she's never going to be seen as an equal. No matter, she has to do three times, sometimes three times, the work in order to get noticed. But in the cannabis world I find we don't have it that bad. I mean, it depends on who you surround yourself with. Yeah, if you surround yourself with those really bad men, well yeah, but there's also these guys that are just killing it and so loving, so respectful.
Speaker 1:And it comes from being part of the plant, growing the plant, loving it. And that's what I wanted to kind of ask you about, because you're you're sort of saying that there is sexism in the cannabis industry, as there is probably in every industry where it's male dominated and probably where it's not male dominated in some ways, but do you think that a lot of that has to do, then, in the cannabis industry? Because we are celebrating the female plant? I feel like that must be recognized in some ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and there's that influence too. I think she and we got to give love to the male plants too that we get our genetics from. But she, I think the plant has a big influence on on a lot of the guys too. You know that's like. You know they, especially the growers who grow it, they're very in touch with you know, a lot of them I know are, um, some of them I know are just like. Again, these are the people I choose to surround myself with. But these farmers are just great family men. You know. They're in touch with, with, uh, with the plant and um, and also there's other women too that are, are just like you.
Speaker 2:You know there's women out there setting the example of like, the expectation of like. Well, you don't always have to be known for your body, and I know this is a feminine plant and a lot of women like to celebrate like that. You know they're expressing their feminine beauty with the beauty of the plant and there's not. You know that's beautiful, that's great if that's what you're saying, you know. But I love the women, you know, like mila, you know she, she shared her experience, did things that most women could didn't have the guts to do at her time, you know, same thing.
Speaker 2:She just traveled through ind, india and Nepal by herself. She met Frenchie in India and Nepal. She was, she didn't go there with him, right that on her own. And and the same thing with now. You know you have these other women Dr Miyabi Shields, you know, if you don't follow her, dr Miyabi Shields and Dr Riley, these women are setting the standard for, for you know, women being known for for what? The positive contributions that they're giving to the community, known for their craft, known like, respected for who they are, like their craft and not not just like kind of the aesthetic of the women.
Speaker 1:I think that's kind of the focus, for sometimes where the sexism happens is there's so much focus on the appearance and aesthetics of things and it's interesting that you brought that up in a lot of ways, because I've had people like I've run my podcast for about five years now and I've had well-meaning, well-intentioned male friends in the past be like you know, you might like get more views on your Instagram, I guess, or whatever, if you bared a little more skin or like maybe you did your show topless, I don't know like crazy stuff like that and and I'm like yeah, it might, but I'm not sure if a that's the kind of attention I'm looking for and what I'm trying to build here and B that's just not really me, like it just doesn't resonate with who I am authentically as a person.
Speaker 1:And so there is that segment of the cannabis industry that is very much like, you know, sexy girls smoking bongs and looking for that male validation, I guess. And if that's if you, if a woman finds that supportive and she can, and that's authentic to who she is, then by all means.
Speaker 2:but you know, yeah, I hear you. I've gotten that and I've I've come to the point where I have two brothers. Okay, to be fair, I have two brothers and for some reason I'm the kind of tomboy girl that always chose the boy things. As a kid I was too, I wanted to do martial arts.
Speaker 2:My mom wanted me to do ice skating. I was longing and looking at the hockey team I'm like I want to do that, though that looks way more fun. But, um, so I've come to find, like I, some women have a natural ability to have more camaraderie with men and kind of can, um, quote unquote, shoot the shit. You know, excuse my language, but you know like, and I've come to find that I, I, you know, energy only exists where attention goes, and so I just don't put energy into that anymore, like, oh, because I'm a woman, I'm not hurt. Or oh, statistically, I'm not gonna like this. Or oh, men only say that because it's like lately, you know, like I, sometimes I just fire it back at them and realize that now is the time women can, we can say what we want.
Speaker 2:You know we worked really hard to to vote and you know like things are changing and we can stand. So that's all it really takes is not being like, not subjecting to like all these statistics. It's it takes changing the statistics, but it takes kind of being tough and you want to be equal to a man. It's like, well, I come at them, equal. It's the same thing in martial arts, like they're going to hit you as hard as you hit them. It's the same thing. So like if you're hitting them super light, they're going to hit you super light. If you start pounding on them, they're like okay, we're going to here we go yeah, and it's the same thing in the world.
Speaker 2:So, like you know, I've told you know, people are like you know you should show a little more skin. You know, I've I've gotten that too and I'm just like, well, you know, you could show you could start getting some abs too. You know and show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're like oh, you know, I don't want to be that guy that's shirtless with my followers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it does go both ways in a lot of respects and I love that you mentioned sort of talking I guess not talking back, but like I heard this term recently called microfeminisms and it's sort of just this idea of just little things you can do to sort of exert your power, I suppose, when you're out in the world, because there's a lot of times where women are expected to be small and act small and not speak and let themselves be interrupted. And I've really myself been trying to just take up space because I'm a woman and I have just as much reason to be here as anybody else, and it's been kind of fun actually. So, um, because I'm not doing anything like that's going to hurt somebody else. But if I'm sitting on the train, I'm not going to be all small, I'm going to man spread right next to the next guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it's like yeah, and and and it comes to like, not I, I again, I'm not condoning sexist behavior, I'm not condoning bullying, I'm just condoning like. You see how, or I'm trying to like, express like. You see how a dog plays with another dog. It looks like they're fighting, it Like when a dogs are playing. You see, I have pit bulls, so you know, when you see them fight, it's just oh, or they're not fighting but they're playing and they're just you're like oh, my god, you guys are playing like. That sounds intense, but it's kind of the same with, with, with our male, with these, you know, and we gotta like.
Speaker 2:I, I think is is coming from a side of love and appreciating the characters, the characteristics of men, the characteristics of how they are. You know, they're kind of very like, they like like, they're very like. You know they like like growing up with brothers and stuff. They like to roast each other. You know they don't have that emotion. They don't take things so personal. Sometimes they do. I'm not, I'm not speaking all men's, cause there's such a a vast array of different kinds of men and like. It's not just to say like. Oh, men are so primal. But you know, growing up with brothers and me personally just being surrounded by men my whole life. I just know they like to roast each other and they joke around.
Speaker 2:They're not so as emotional as us and it's harder for them to kind of come from a side of love One because it's, you know, we're kind of the more nurturing women are naturally more nurturing, we're more emotional. So, like it's harder for them to see like, oh, like, you know, the women women are, they can, some guys can they see us like we're the nurturing spirit, we're the feminine, like the loving, and we do like, like, and so there are some men that are really good at communicating with women, being like nurturing and the way they talk and like thoughtful and their responses and understanding. But sometimes I feel like us women kind of have to meet them halfway to. You know, we kind of have to give them a little bit of a punch on the side too, you know, and they you know a lot of them will respect that.
Speaker 2:Or like love, the camaraderie, you know it's not doesn't always have to be sexist, doesn't always have to be bullying, but it can be the same kind of forceful energy, but loving, you know what I mean Like it's kind of like, you know, like like. I would only say that to my friend who's like well, you can show a little more skin. I would only like say that to a really good friend and be like well, you can work out, get some abs and show them abs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not saying that to a stranger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and then they're just like okay, I feel you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I think too a lot of you know men have been conditioned a certain way and sometimes there's a pretty narrow definition of what a man is supposed to be, as much as that typical narrow definition of what a woman should be, and it's going to take time to sort of allow that to expand, because I think that's better for everybody. But I love that you mentioned earlier sort of the male plant as well and how key that is for the continuation of what we're doing, because you have to have the male and the female and to me I see that as collaboration and that's what's going to push everything forward is collaboration instead of competition, and I feel like we're sort of just getting over the hump of a history of a lot of competition between men and women and I think if we focus on the collaboration, just like in the cannabis world where you have to have the male and the female plant working together that that can go a long way to making some positive change yeah, do their part and they do their part based on their strengths.
Speaker 2:You know, and it's this thing where us women have our strengths and men definitely have their strengths, you know, I always tell my uh, my partner, because I don't even kill bugs. You know, I I'm very like I almost come from a buddhist perspective of things, growing up in japan and everything very shinto, like we believe we just I try not to kill bugs and and he just will smack a spider and I'm just like, but you know, some, you never know that kind of cold like decision making is this stuff that can save someone's life someday?
Speaker 2:you know, like I, who knows, like you know, like you, never like. There are certain things where, like um, their strength is, is like, strong in certain circumstances, and whereas our strength, our nurturing, is strong in certain, certain senses, like so it always like we balance each other out through the different circumstances we go through in in this world.
Speaker 2:But yeah I think we got to give a little bit more. Like I, I am all for the women, but I'm like, oh, the men do have, like I know statistically, like there are a lot of you know we have it, we don't have it easy Women, statistically, on so many different fronts, we're definitely have the short end of the stick. But I'm, you know, I'm seeing there's change.
Speaker 2:Those statistics are the change is always bound to happen and, at the same time, it's not going to happen with us. Just like with a negative outlook on it, like we're not going to achieve any positive change, trying to like focus on the negative things about men just being sexist and how they need to calm down and chill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think that's where the collaboration comes in versus the competition. And I also love how you mentioned earlier that you surround yourself with good people. And you know, when you surround yourself with good people, they're far more willing to hear feedback as well. So if they do something that's a little you know, you're like not comfortable with it, or they say something that you're not, you're like well, that might be a blind spot for you. They're probably going to be more likely to listen to what you have to say because they have that respect. And I think you know surrounding yourself with good people men or women is always a smart move, regardless of what you're doing in life. But when it comes to combating some sexism, that's probably also wise too. So I am curious if you have any other mentors that have supported you in your journey in the cannabis industry.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to hit this really quick, excuse me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I do. Yeah, I do. I would say, madam Cannoli, kimberly doesn't get as much light as she does. You know she was the backbone of the company. Let me just say, like Frenchie was the creative artistic, he was the creative visionary company. Let me just say Frenchie was the creative artistic, he was the creative visionary. But Kim did everything, everything for the Frenchie Cannoli brand, for the workshops, for years and years and years and years. She gets very little credit or thank you for that, especially on things like the Facebook group. She doesn't get a lot of. That's free, you don't have to pay for that, that's completely free. And her time, she devotes her time for free on that and just tries to put her best foot forward. So I think she doesn't get enough light. But she was one of my mentors because I am the lead hash maker. I always tell people I'm the lead hash maker of Heritage Hash Coat that came from Frenchie, but the director of manufacturing side definitely came from Kim.
Speaker 2:You see, the director of manufacturing side is different from the lead hash maker side. That's a lot of project management, which she was a project manager for a big company for a long time. She taught me a lot about Microsoft Office, or helped excel my knowledge in Microsoft Office and how to how to effectively implement it into project management. Um, so she is definitely one of, like, I would say, one of, my mentors for cannabis and my brother, leo. Um, you know, I always, I always talk about Frenchie, frenchie, all the time. But my brother was the one who I came up here and learned from my brother.
Speaker 2:Leo and Carlo, both of them, because they both run that company. Carlo doesn't like to be in the light so much. Leo is like again, the creative visionary, the face of the company.
Speaker 2:But he's also run by my brother, carlo, and I've learned so much from them, both Um and Carlo's also a martial artist, so he was not only like my mentor in cannabis, but martial arts. So, um, yeah, I basically, you know, in cannabis, those, those, those are outside of Frenchie. Those are, you know, kimberly, kimberly, um and Leo are my main, like actual mentors, who, who've taken the time to like mentor me on things.
Speaker 1:Um, that's super valuable too, cause it sounds like Kimberly really helped you with the business acumen that you need in order to do what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, I couldn't do what I do if it weren't for her teaching me those you know and really encouraging me to implement those, those skills and get those tools on my tool belt Because, yeah, she's right, they're important, they are super important to know like back office, microsoft Excel, like to re, in order to excel in life. You need to add more tools to your tool belt if you want to, to broaden your horizons.
Speaker 1:So Well, it's easy to forget about what happens in the backend because you know, like you said, your brother is really the one brother is really the face of the company and then Carlo's the, the one in the back doing whatever it is that he's doing. But you can't have have the, you can't have them growing, without both of them working together, or Frenchie and Kimberly, like everyone knows, frenchie and you have all these like beautiful shots of hash and and all this kind of thing, but none of that works without Kimberly in the background doing her thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, none of it would have existed.
Speaker 1:None of it would have existed if it weren't for her right and so the front end and the face is like the glamour and the things that we think of, like growing huge plants and all this kind of thing.
Speaker 2:But then there's the work that goes with it when you have to harvest those plants yes, and it's a whole like it takes the crew to be noticed and stuff, and uh, and yeah, you know, and I've actually, you know, come to, you know, come to find that you know I've. I've learned a lot from my CEO of my company too. You know, his name's Kyle Greenall. He started Heritage Hashko. He it was interesting watching him, you know a grower just kind of go through the learning curve of of keeping this business, keeping this business going.
Speaker 2:I've learned a lot watching him and seeing how he meant because I'm going to be honest, I couldn't do what he does. He's gone through so many challenges that would have broke me. I've seen that guy get kicked down time and time again and he gets back up every single time with a smile. It's insane. I'm just like, oh my God, with with the like I couldn't imagine. So shout out to cannabis CEOs out there, like I, I can't even begin to imagine. Like how, what that's like, that is such a hard life and I can't imagine, cause I, I, I have a business partner who is I watch it happen every day and the guy still has his whole family, you know like uh, has his kids and his wife and you know loves him dearly.
Speaker 2:But you know it goes through these challenges and I've seen it over the years and, like I said, just gets back up every time and tries again with a smile, right, I'm just like that's a mindset that would break most people and and and those people like him are rarely in a think they're, they're in a thankless position and I find that too I'm in a very thankless position Kimberly, leo, carlo and, at the time, frenchie. Before Frenchie passed a lot of the time he was in a thankless position and it's crazy kind of what happens when all of a sudden people realize they don't have something anymore and then they miss it and they take it for granted.
Speaker 2:But I remember a time when me and Frenchie were poop soup, people were like, oh, dark hash, that's gross. We were the public enemy number one for a second. Oh, really, yeah, I mean here in California public enemy number one for a second. Yeah, I mean here in california, you especially with the rosin, and just the kind of misunderstanding. Now there's more of a consciousness and understanding of, oh, each product is different. You know, one one is just cake and one's pie made out of the same thing but cake butter, flour and sugar kind of different expressions of it.
Speaker 2:But um, but uh, now we understand that nowadays it's the consensus is starting to really grow more. But back, you know, when that first was starting, frenchie and me were putting out pressed hash and the whole Rosin scene was taken off. You know, we were definitely like, oh, why would anyone smoke that dark stuff? That's gross, you know, but yeah, you know. But yeah.
Speaker 2:So there were times, you times, you know where this, this world, can be a little thankless, um, but so when you do get those thank yous it's it means you know you gotta hang on to them right, and do you have any examples of a time where somebody was able to show you thanks?
Speaker 1:it was really meaningful for you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that happens at like every workshop.
Speaker 1:Right, I bet yeah, that's kind of really really validating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anytime someone shows me their hash and just is like I watched your video or watch Frenchie's video, or like I made this hash based on you know, like this conversation I had with Frenchie, that is like the most special and validating thing ever, whether it's hash or rosin, and it's like doesn't matter if it wasn't like a great, it's like wow, they tried, they went out of their way and got a machine or did it. However, they did it and like press it together and like came over here wanting to show you that all day, thinking about all their way there, to like show you that moment.
Speaker 2:You know, that is like thinking about all their way there to like show you that moment. You know, that is like so much energy for you know, for Frenchie and me, I was like, oh, that is such an honor yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:I wish, I wish unfortunate, and that okay, I to answer. To come back to another question, and the other challenge of traveling for education is I can't bring stuff with me, so, like somebody gave, shows me something. God, I wish I could give them a piece of my hash, cause that's what Frenchie would do. He would always pull out his head stash and like share a piece of his hash too.
Speaker 1:Um so one day one day.
Speaker 2:I can't always do that.
Speaker 1:I can do that locally, but yeah, but it's so validating though though man it's so validating when people kind of just say thank you in that way right now do you, do you have any hopes for the future regarding just in the cannabis industry generally? What would you like to see in an ideal world?
Speaker 2:I would like to see people kind of uh, just chill out on the competitiveness a little bit and the hate and the like, the. I would like a more of a focus on the bigger picture, because you know where this is going to be real. Like there's two ways this can go. We can go the capitalist way and we're going to really screw ourselves. But we can go the the knowledge and education route and devote a little bit more time to being open source and knowledge and kind of figuring out you know how to set this up better for the future. Is is where we should be putting our focus and energy. But a lot of the places that are starting to go legal. I mean I can warn them all day. We can warn them all day on these podcasts and stuff, and I guess that's what we can do to make a change. But I'm just warning everybody stop being so competitive. That's going to be our demise.
Speaker 2:That competitiveness and hating on your neighbor like, oh, all their stuff is boof or their stuff is trash it's like dude. You have any, especially as a hash maker. It's like dude. They went to the store got some ice. If they don't have an ice machine, you know they ran, that they sourced, that. They're doing this with you Like. You might not like them, or they might be a certain type of way, or you might have differences in views, but at the same time, we're like trying to do this whole thing together to change the world. So, instead of like, like, oh like, like I said before, is like my stuff is better than your stuff. And that focus of like oh I, my stuff has to be better than your stuff, and instead of like, how can we take both of our stuff and make the world a better place?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. And that's coming back to that collaboration versus competitiveness again, because I really think that competitiveness does really kill a beautiful thing. And yeah, I wholeheartedly agree because I think that's just going to pave the way for more collaboration in the future. And, honestly, there's room for everybody in this industry. There could be 50,000 hash makers, I don't know, but there's room for everybody and you don't have to look at it as such a oh, I have to stamp out my competition because you know there isn't enough if I have competitors, but I just don't see that as being true. I think that everybody brings a unique perspective or a unique thing and people resonate with one versus another, but there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now switching gears just a little bit before we wrap up here. But what would surprise people about you?
Speaker 2:Um, what would surprise people about me? I'm Filipino. People are like you're Filipino. Yeah, my mom's Filipino, I'm a Filipino.
Speaker 1:That's cool. Yeah, my mom's Filipino. I'm a Filipino. Okay, that's cool. Yeah, and do you have any exciting projects coming up that you would like to share with the listeners of Bite Me?
Speaker 2:Yes, I would like to let everyone know that we have another high tea event going on in San Francisco. You know we have some workshops coming up and Kimberly and I have we're going to be in Minnesota in July, on the 14th, and then we have a workshop in San Francisco and Portland coming up. So, yeah, if you, if you stay tuned on the Frenchie cannoli Instagram or my Instagram, you can see our upcoming workshops and stuff. But those are some of the bigger events that we have going on so far.
Speaker 1:And people should definitely check them out. I'm not sure if this episode is going to come out before the one you mentioned in mid-July, but I was able to go to the High Tea in Toronto and the workshop, the Lost Art Workshop and it was a fabulous experience and you so clearly know your shit and the way you present this information as does Kimberly, because she does a lot of the history and stuff at the beginning but the way you two put together this information and present it to the group, it's well worth the time to check it out and learn something, because you can't walk away without learning something. So I would definitely recommend to people that, if they're in the neighborhood, to go out and check it out, but I'll link to it in the show notes as well so people can find you and the Frenchie Instagram so that they can stay up to date with that stuff, because do you have workshops planned like until the end of the year or is this just much? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, we plan it a couple months ahead. So we have a couple, like I know the. The one after minnesota will probably be portland, right, if I understand? And then um, and then we have san francisco in september and then october we have I believe it's New Mexico. Oh cool, yeah, yeah and then yeah, and that high tea event is is fantastic and what are you doing?
Speaker 1:the high tea in conjunction with all the workshops as well yes, uh.
Speaker 2:Well, that's just going to be in San Francisco. We're just doing one. It's like a documentary is going to be screened and we're going to have lots of pastries and good tea and a lot, you know, free smoking, like, like you know, consumption and stuff. So I'm pretty sure we'll be doing a hookah or two event and um, oh, and one also thing I wanted to put out there is.
Speaker 1:I recently joined the concierge council.
Speaker 2:As an instructor I am a special, like we do the product specialist. Um, it's called the product specialist. Uh, it's like a. It's not a full concierge like the whole class, but you can be a product specialist and you can get certified through this program. It's a smaller program. I teach, I teach about uh, product like concentrates, basically like the basic understand. You know concentrates and um solvent and solvent lists. I go over like what they are, what look like, how they're consumed kind of thing, very basic, and then there's a whole consumption thing, there's a. So it's basically good for bud tenders. You know this is really good for, like bud tenders or people in in retail or distribution or so I highly recommend looking at this program for anybody who is wanting to venture into the gangier program. But I know it requires a lot of traveling, the tuition might be a little expensive. So they have this kind of different program, a different certification program that can get your foot in the door too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll be checking that out and I'll link to that in the show notes as well, because they are offering that program for all the certified gangiers, and so I'll be checking that out and I'll link to that in the show notes as well, because they are offering that program for all the certified ganges, and so I'll definitely be checking it out, because I think a lot of people would be interested in that, even if they just want to have a better understanding of what's out there, because it seems like as the industry matures, there's so many more options and it can get really confusing. So, yeah, I hear that, absolutely. So I just want to thank you so much for your time today, belle. I really appreciate you spending your time with me and I wish you all the best in all your upcoming workshops.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:That's it for this week, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this conversation and, of course, you can find all the links and mentions over at the show notes and you can find out easily when the next workshop might be and how to connect with Cherry Blossom Bell online, because she's always up to some cool, interesting things and sharing her knowledge and passion for hash and cannabis. Until next week, my friends, I'm your host, marge. Stay high.
